Why we travel by car!!!

  • ficklejade's Avatar
    OK, wrong part sent for my car so couldn't take it away to do a rally radio in the Lakes last Saturday. Staying with friends so they said use theirs and they'd provide me with a driver; they had a spare radio so no problem, providing I could get there. Spent four hours researching public transport options and finally decided bus to (free) Craignure for ferry to Oban £1.40; bus (free) to Glasgow Buchanan Street; taxi (times a bit thin) to Glasgow Central (£5.30) and train (return to Gretna Green where friends stay) - £34.90. Total journey time door to door - 10 hours!
    Rang to get tickets - that little performance took five hours owing to the system failing twice at their end. Then my tickets wouldn't be posted until 6th March on next day delivery - booking being made on 4th March!! Finally, after four phone calls, was able to get a ticket to pick up at Glasgow Central. Duly took my reference number and card to said machine and - ticket cannot be issued here! Joined long queue and eventually tickets appeared. Made train by skin of my teeth. I could have done the train journey much cheaper by getting too singles but was told I couldn't get a single back from Gretna as it has no ticket office or ticket machines (true) but everyone else was buying tickets off the train conductor!!!

    So, I paid £41.60 for the return trip, plus £20 towards friends' loan of car/fuel and £20 towards meal for all of them, because it really did put them out. If I'd taken my car, I'd have paid £15.70 for one ferry (Corran free as buy book of 30 tickets for a year and after first 10 trips rest work out free) and £140 for fuel (but would have some of that left to bring back onto the island. There would be some running costs, I appreciate, but I could have travelled a day later, come back a day earlier (impossible to get back to the island on a Sunday from Gretna by public transport) and six hours each way - far less stressful! Haven't had the phone bill yet!!!!
  • 43 Replies

  • Santa's Avatar
    Of course driving is much more convenient than public transport, but what stands out to me in your tale is this:

    You have seriously underestimated the cost of driving. The 'free' tickets on the ferry are not free at all but just reduced, and you take no account of the fixed costs of motoring (tax, insurance, depreciation and maintenance)

    If you regularly used public transport, you would be much better at planning. An elderly friend of ours travels all over the country, making full use of her rail discount card and her free bus pass. If I wanted to go anywhere by train, I would certainly consult her because she is a mine of information (buying split tickets, routing, where and when bargains are available etc).

    If I had to do it at the last minute as you did, I have no doubt that I would have similar problems. A couple of years ago we went to London on the train - I did my research and bought the tickets online; all sorted. We got there with no trouble, but when we went to catch the train back the next day, I had non-refundable tickets for the wrong date and to make it worse, I now had to pay the full price. Lesson learned.
  • Snowball's Avatar
    We regularly use our bus passes for public transport, but never at peak periods when the passes are not valid. Trains! Avoided at all costs because the pricing systems are too complicated and we regard them as a 'middle factor'.
    I do use my car in many instances where someone else might catch a bus, but when considering the fixed costs for tax, insurance and the maintenance plan (which are unavoidable) the cost of fuel and the convenience make the car much more preferable.
    If we disposed of the car, by using taxis, trains and buses I think it would be cheaper annually but, since we are caravaners, having a suitable tow car is a necessity anyhow.
  • Motman's Avatar
    I’m just off to work now. Being 61 I get free travel any time on buses, tubes and trams all over London. Preferable to taking my scooter most days and always preferable to going by car. 😁
  • Santa's Avatar
    I am convinced that anyone who drives by choice in London is in need of therapy.
  • Snowball's Avatar
    You mean - like from Downing Street to the Houses of Parliament?
  • Hometune's Avatar
    Guest
    I have little choice about driving where I now live. On a bus route admittedly but just one an hour at best. And it would be another bus to the next town. Or a taxi to the railway station 3 miles away. And a train to wherever.
    Contrast this with Edinburgh. I lived on the number 26 route so a bus every 7 minutes in peak time and within 12 minutes at other times. Just had another holiday and used the park and ride near the airport. Choice of buses or trams so we chose the tram. £3.40 return for a 30 minute journey to the city centre. Parking free. Tram every 8 minutes.
    To prise us out of cars will take some levering. But if I ever lived in Edinburgh, I would use public transport all the time.

    The slogan for Hometune many years ago was, "Experience the Convenience". I think that could be applied to cars full stop.
  • Snowball's Avatar
    Our service bus route (Arriva) is just at the end of our road, and has the bus stop just around the corner. When we use the bus - off peak - there is a kind of ad-lib dropping out of the occasional bus from the schedule. As it isn't possible to know which one will not be arriving, if you just miss one, and the next one is the dropped bus, you could be waiting for half an hour for the next one to come along. So, if going to a destination where parking is not a problem, it's a case of 'to hell with the bus, I'll take the car'.
  • Santa's Avatar
    We have a bus every hour pass right by the front door. There are no proper stops so they stop for anyone who puts an arm out.
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    I’m lucky. When I don’t want to drive into London (needing therapy according to Santa!) there’s a bus every six minutes. Obviously they bunch up, but I can see on the internet when one Is due to save waiting in the cold. 15 minutes takes me to the station with a 20 minute journey to central London. And all free!

    When I was a child we had two trains a day to the big metropolis of Inverness. At a price.

    Wherever you live, there’s a trade off. Quality vs. Convenience, scenery vs. Jobs, etc. I’ve had enough scenery to last a lifetime!
  • ficklejade's Avatar
    Santa, I may have glossed over the costs of having a car, but, sadly, a car is an essential here. More than half the island isn't served by a bus service. And forget about going anywhere in the evenings or weekends. A taxi one way to the ferry is £45! Nearest railway station two hours away including a ferry and from there it's over three hours to the nearest metropolis - not that that appeals! That's why I don't bother with a rail card - it's simply too slow and you can't get there and back in a day. The buses are based on the Oban - Craignure ferries so that's every two hours but not for all ferries.

    I do use my bus pass on the wee bus to do day to day shopping Mon - Fri and occasionally going to get the ferry for an appt. in Oban but for a big shop, it has to be the car. I try to build enough time when I am on the mainland for other purposes to do a big supermarket shop, just like many of us. Mainland buses are the same - take too long, although they are better than the rail. However, like Santa, our local bus drivers will drop you off and pick you up even where there's no bus stop.

    Like Snowball, it's also worth those of you with reasonable public transport remembering that people vary. Mr and Mrs Snowball take caravaning holidays and enjoy them; I enjoy providing rally radio safety for which a car is essential as most places I go have no public transport - a car is necessary. I'm also a volunteer first aider - part of a team that keeps events running on the island, not just for locals but for others who bring a lot of money into the local economy coming over to participate.

    I agree with Hometune - if I were back staying in Edinburgh, the bus service is fantastic and reasonable (not had the occasion to try the trams) and I'd use it, but for many people, especially in rural areas, it is not an option.

    Beelzebub, what on earth has it got to do with scenery? I live in a beautiful place, true, but there are jobs - some extremely well paid if occasionally dangerous. But I also live somewhere where you don't need to lock your house and have CCTV; you only really need to lock up your car in the visitor season and the community will rally round if you are in need of dire help.
  • Santa's Avatar
    I appreciate that your car is essential FJ; I was just making the point that you were underestimating the cost of using the car and that if you have time to plan, public transport isn't always bad.

    We have a big car because we need room for a powered wheelchair in the back; we should probably use the bus more often (they are wheelchair friendly) but the car is there so we may as well use it.
  • Hometune's Avatar
    Guest
    But I also live somewhere where you don't need to lock your house and have CCTV; you only really need to lock up your car in the visitor season and the community will rally round if you are in need of dire help.

    This is what I miss most about where I live. Security floodlights, 5 CCTV cameras round the house, door locked by 6pm, additional security on the cars and if going away for a week, I even used to jack up the TVR and remove the wheels to stop it being stolen. At least once a month, the in-laws hear someone trying their doors and windows.
    Living just 5 miles from the car crime capital of Britain (Bradford) has its downsides. Even last night we were watching the new series of Police Interceptors on the telly and the chase involving the Porsche Macan started just half a mile away and the roundabout they went round twice is just up the road. All the roads are local to us and we could do without it.
  • Motman's Avatar
    I’m lucky. When I don’t want to drive into London (needing therapy according to Santa!) there’s a bus every six minutes. Obviously they bunch up, but I can see on the internet when one Is due to save waiting in the cold. 15 minutes takes me to the station with a 20 minute journey to central London. And all free!

    When I was a child we had two trains a day to the big metropolis of Inverness. At a price.

    Wherever you live, there’s a trade off. Quality vs. Convenience, scenery vs. Jobs, etc. I’ve had enough scenery to last a lifetime!

    What area do you live in Beelzebub? We're a ten minute walk between two towns (Upminster and Hornchurch in Essex) with good links to London. I work in East London and door to door using the District line with a walk at either end can take me less than 40 minutes - quicker if changing trains using the C2C. Unfortunately Upminster is the very end of the District line and we are plagued with awayday criminals. We have the convenience of good transport links but it seems that every other day a car is stolen or a house is burgled. Also, living within a short walk to a mainline and tube station, we suffer the aggro of station parker’s which means you often can’t park near your house when you come home in the weekday. We are security conscious with good locks, burglar alarm, CCTV, video doorbell etc and I wouldn’t be bothered about the car going missing but if we were burgled, I think Mrs M wouldn’t want to stay in the house. I think that’s why we enjoy our breaks in the Peak District. I always say how great it would be to live there.......right up until we run out of milk or fancy a takeaway meal!
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    What area do you live in Beelzebub? We're a ten minute walk between two towns (Upminster and Hornchurch in Essex) with good links to London. I work in East London and door to door using the District line with a walk at either end can take me less than 40 minutes - quicker if changing trains using the C2C. Unfortunately Upminster is the very end of the District line and we are plagued with awayday criminals. We have the convenience of good transport links but it seems that every other day a car is stolen or a house is burgled. Also, living within a short walk to a mainline and tube station, we suffer the aggro of station parker’s which means you often can’t park near your house when you come home in the weekday. We are security conscious with good locks, burglar alarm, CCTV, video doorbell etc and I wouldn’t be bothered about the car going missing but if we were burgled, I think Mrs M wouldn’t want to stay in the house. I think that’s why we enjoy our breaks in the Peak District. I always say how great it would be to live there.......right up until we run out of milk or fancy a takeaway meal!
    Hi Motman. I'm in Kingston upon Thames in SW London, near the other end of the District Line.

    Lucky (tempting fate) to be in a low-crime area, at least by London standards.

    No Peak District for me - we gave up holidays in the UK about 1980, when we started to develop webbed feet ....
  • Snowball's Avatar
    Of course, uncertainties for the future have to be considered. Bus companies operate their routes on the basis of profit and demand - and as far as I am aware, a bus company is not under any obligation to to provide a service in any particular area. Bus routes get changed all the time - from a reduction in number per day, to a route being closed - and who knows how long there will be free passes for the 'elderly'?

    If our bus passes were scrapped, we would not use the bus at all. If we need to go into the city, I am sufficiently familiar with the area to find unrestricted parking within a walkable distance. With the two of use on board, it is still cheaper than for both of us using the bus.
    With non-food items, we make regular use of buying on line and obtaining free delivery/returns to/from local collection points in our area - Sainsbury,s, Asda, Waitrose, Co-op for example - and parking at these is rarely a problem.
  • Santa's Avatar
    There is a consensus in government circles that we, the general public, need to be persuaded to use public transport more, not less. To change a policy that keeps thousands of pensioners out of their cars would be catastrophic, and that's not to mention the 'grey' vote.

    "Nationally, the Department for Transport spends £1.2bn a year on free travel.

    It channels the money through local councils who then pay the bus companies for the revenue they have lost through allowing the elderly to travel for free."
  • ficklejade's Avatar
    Point taken, Santa! Unfortunately, as I know you understand, many of my trips are not feasible using public transport (because there isn't any where I'm headed or because it would take so long I'd be worse off because of extra accommodation costs). Earlier this year, I wanted to go to a family member's funeral in Cambridge - by using the car and with a stop on the way down and back with friends, I needed one night's accommodation and four days away. By public transport (and on this occasion had a lot of notice and enlisted the help of friends - one in Scotland and one in England) and the logistics meant a minimum of two nights' accommodation or, to make it more comfortable and less stressful, three. Not something I could afford seeing it's damn expensive being a single person nowadays in the accommodation area - which is why I camp when I can! As it happened, the weather forecast (which proved correct for once!) made me decide to cancel out of common sense!
  • ficklejade's Avatar
    That sounds awful to me, Hometune. The downside of living where I do - apart from ferries being cancelled, some scary weather more frequently than that that sends the rag newspapers focusing on the Home Counties into hysterical over-dramatisation - is that one tends to lose some of the streetwise instincts! If I have on rare occasions to go to a city, my son gives me a severe lecture (with good reason) in advance!! That's not saying I'm just a country bumpkin, just I'm not au fait with the latest tricks.
  • Hometune's Avatar
    Guest
    That sounds awful to me, Hometune. The downside of living where I do - apart from ferries being cancelled, some scary weather more frequently than that that sends the rag newspapers focusing on the Home Counties into hysterical over-dramatisation - is that one tends to lose some of the streetwise instincts! If I have on rare occasions to go to a city, my son gives me a severe lecture (with good reason) in advance!! That's not saying I'm just a country bumpkin, just I'm not au fait with the latest tricks.

    This year's September holiday is probably going to be an Outer Hebridean one. Up to Edinburgh, then to Ullapool and over to Stornoway. Run down to Harris (Tarbet) before ferry to North Uist with a day through to South Uist. Overnight stay then ferry to Oban with a stop to be decided.
    Its the opposite of where I live and empty roads, fantastic scenery and lovely people is the polar opposite of 'home'.
  • Snowball's Avatar
    Visited local post office today to obtain my International Driving Permit ready for our trip to France in May. It is more complicated than a passport, and it is fortunate that I had spare photos from when we renewed our passports last year, because a passport photo is needed for the post office to stick into the IDP.
    So anyone driving through France and into Spain would need two such photos, because a separate IDP is required for each country.

    Normally an IDP lasts for three years but, because my driving licence has to be renewed July 2020, my IDP only lasts until then. So anyone 70 or over, whose driving licence has to be renewed try-annually, should watch this if they do have to buy an IDP.
  • Santa's Avatar
    Good advice, but we have no plans to cross the Channel by car this year. More sensible to wait and see what happens I think.
  • Snowball's Avatar
    Good advice, but we have no plans to cross the Channel by car this year. More sensible to wait and see what happens I think.
    See your point, Santa, but we are in our 80's and it isn't quite so easy to just say we'll leave it until next year.
    We have travelled all over France, but in the last few years we have confined ourselves to Brittany. The French in this area are generally laid back and just want to get on with their lives. Last year, in the Super U in Dol-de-Bretagne, we did come across a checkout girl who was abrupt to the point of open unfriendliness. But she could have simply be having a bad day. If the subject of Brexit does arise, I simply put my finger to my temple and say, "les Anglais, ils sont mal des tetes." Which usually ends in a laugh.
  • Santa's Avatar
    We have been to France many times over the years and even in Paris, we have usually found that the natives are friendly. The exception being Parisian restaurant staff, who classify customers by their appearance and put tourists on the bottom rung.

    It helps if you have a smattering of the language, and if you have some idea of local customs. On another (cruise-related) forum I saw a complaint about how in Paris, the elegantly dressed sales assistants would simply ignore you as you waited to be served. This never happened to us, because my father, who spent some time there, told me that all you have to do is give them a polite "Bonjour Mam'selle" and they will give you their full attention.

    Of course, every country has its fair share of miserable gits and people having bad days.
  • Snowball's Avatar
    It now looks possible that Article 50 will be delayed. I am still glad that I obtained my IDP, as there could be confusion over the situation (the various agencies operating their own versions of what is, or what is not, the correct procedure. In addition, with our stay in France lasting until early in July, we have no idea at the moment of whether the Article 50 extension will end during our stay, or how the situation might change at that point.
    I will still be asking my insurers for advice concerning the Green Card, and I am hoping they will err on the safe side and issue one to me.

    Santa, I hope you did not give a polite "bonjour mam'selle" to any male sales assistants!!! Hee, hee!
  • Snowball's Avatar
    Predictive text
    I have noticed that my computer - Apple Mac - has the annoying habit of changing my typed script. For example, my 'hee,hee' changed to
    'her, her' and I see that in an earlier post 'tri-annually' has been changed to 'try-annually'. During this post it changed to 'trip-annually'.
    The only way to obtain the spelling that I plan is to look back through the text for any changes. Damned annoying!
    I have searched my computer Services facility but cannot find any reference to disabling predictive text. Any ideas, folks?
  • Drivingforfun's Avatar
    Not sure if yours is the same but I have a Mac and can turn it off by going to system preferences, clicking keyboard, then text, then there is an option to un-tick “correct spelling automatically”
  • Snowball's Avatar
    Yes, Drivingforfun, I have found that option but did not think of the "correct spelling automatically" as being a tool for preventing a predictive action. Have now unticked the box and will see how it goes. Thanks for that.
  • Rakonijy's Avatar
    The peculiarity of the trips is that the person is completely left to himself and ideally you can expect time and more. In general, you can understand that your transport can sometimes be considered a luxury!
  • Snowball's Avatar
    The peculiarity of the trips is that the person is completely left to himself and ideally you can expect time and more. In general, you can understand that your transport can sometimes be considered a luxury!
    In what way? I regard my own transport as being convenient. I think the idea of personal transport (car) being a luxury went out with the image of the working man being someone who wore a flat cap.