Robots doing Real Work!
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Community Manager03-06-26 11:38How did I generation raised watching this:
Decided it was a good idea to create robots?
At some point, you have to ask: if machines are doing all the work, what exactly are people supposed to do?
"It will create more jobs". Ok...
I just posted about the self-driving car. The last couple of years have been quite intense, it seems technology is advancing way too fast. I miss the ol' good times when the biggest tech update was Apple coming up with another overrated phone.
And no flying cars like in the Jetsons... or the wardrobe that becomes tiny and you can put it in your pocket! 😂Last edited by Lily; 03-06-26 at 12:22.
Lily
Got a question or want to start a discussion? Create a new post here. ✍ -
03-06-26 14:31Curiosity, and the search for novelty, is part of being human but, as you say, we are getting into areas where the consequences of new developments should be thought through before being released.
First we need worldwide laws and a system to enforce them, one of these laws should be, "Do no harm".
Hopefully, it does not prevent development but does introduce a level of responsibility into the development of products.
If not world wide, countries could go it alone, I think, the events that lead to the Grenfell Towers fire would not have happened if all the parties involved had been working under a 'Do no Harm' directive, of course the penalty would need to be realistic.Last edited by olduser; 03-06-26 at 14:34.
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03-06-26 18:51Ricky Gervais said AI isn't truly as clever as us until it works out how to get out of work: not turning up on Monday because of a hangover, while self-diagnosing with ADHD and claiming hardship
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Community Manager04-06-26 16:14You could always be a contractor, being hired and paid by an AI agent to do work that it finds too difficult: The Human API
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04-06-26 16:37I wonder if there will be pushback from the BMW workers union.
Just wondering.
https://apnews.com/article/strike-la...9d38febe05e212 -
05-06-26 13:19
Well, they have Trump on their side - god help them.
Automated trucks feels feasible but automated cranes are different, when it goes wrong (and it will) someone could be killed. Lifting and lowering a load on a crane is simple but in this situation the ship is moving, the weight in each load is different, the wind is different, the pendulum effect is constantly changing, and there are people in the ship and at the landing site.
One other thought is, have the longshore men priced themselves off the market?
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07-06-26 10:37
I don't agree. They both have the potential to cause mayhem. On the other hand, they both could prove to be more reliable than fallible human operators.
Workers have tried to resist automation forever. Spitalfields silk weavers rioted against the introduction of machines in 1675, 1719, 1736, and the 1760s. The 19th century had the Luddites resisting mechanisation in wool and cotton mills.
News printing used to be controlled by a very strong union which insisted that only a qualified man could press the button to start the press (his only task). At Longbridge, drilling a hole in a piece of wood backed by metal required both a carpenter and a metalworker.
Does this mean that most people will be able to veg out all day in front of their screens watching entertainment created and provided by AI? I don't know, but I surely hope not. -
07-06-26 15:26As a sort of aside: Apparently most car top coats are around 40 - 70 microns thick. One manufacturer, (who will not honour paint fade caused by sunshine), boasts only 30 microns. I was told these kinds of 'thinness'* cannot be achieved by human painters.
*I claim a senior moment here - I can't think of the correct word. -
07-06-26 15:27Automated load carriers appear to be sorted out and working safely in factories, mixed in with people.
I don't think, within the dockyard, there is a need for speed, a container has to be in the right position at the right time that is all.
I once visited a BMC factory in the bad old days, and seeing people working like machines (repetitive actions) struck me as soul destroying, and a waste of human intellect.
But I do agree, we should be thinking about how life needs to be reorganised to enable people to live with pride.Last edited by olduser; 07-06-26 at 15:30.
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07-06-26 21:16
No, it's more like the ability to hold the whole country to ransom, much like the British rail and London Underground workers, and any threat to that power is not to be taken lightly. -
08-06-26 13:26
I would have said, "I was told kinds of thickness (30 micron) is beyond human painters", but I do understand and sympathise with your senior moments, they are very frustrating.Last edited by olduser; 08-06-26 at 13:42.
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08-06-26 13:35
Eventually, they all price themselves off the market but from what I hear, unions in the USA hold far too much power.
They did in the UK, and eventually destroyed the UK motor industry but at that time, it was easy for the unions because the work was so bad, men were forced to work mechanically, like machines.
Last edited by olduser; 08-06-26 at 13:43.
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08-06-26 14:04
That's a bit of a myth. UK car production actually peaked in 2016, when we built more cars (and exported vastly more) than in any earlier "golden age". Production then fell dramatically with Covid and hasn't recovered.
The unions certainly did massive damage to the industry in the '60s and '70s, (and so did inept management), but they didn't kill it. -
08-06-26 14:14My next-door neighbour at the time worked for Ford at Dagenham on the production line. He assured me that he could swap jobs at the drop of a hat if he could find someone to swap with. He reckoned he could build a complete car with the knowledge he had accrued.
FWIW: Has anyone else seen Made in Dagenham? -
10-06-26 11:41
Most car manufacturers in the UK are not UK owned these days, in the main, due to union resistance to progress.
But poor management was also a factor, there are always two sides to any strike, the union and the management, and they both contribute to a strike situation.
Take the Birmingham binmen strike, the most obvious next move was to have restored the status quo, while the original problem was sorted out.
Management can (and should) reduce union power by paying attention/listening to it's workforce, dealing with what are usually minor problems quickly.
If there is no immediate action/solution possible to a problem, this should be reported back to the workforce with the reason why this is so.
Prompt answers, remove a major source of frustration, frustration is the root of union power.
Due to our history, there is a propensity to the divisive 'Us' and 'Them' attitude within a company, it is up to the management to turn this into 'We'. -
10-06-26 11:59
That is true. Of the volume manufacturers, all the UK-owned ones have gone: only the two foreign-owned have survived (Ford and Vauxhall). Make of that what you will.
Does it really matter who owns the companies? The only economic effect is that the profits go abroad, but back in the "good old days" the UK-owned ones made little or no profits anyway. If they were profitable, they'd still be here! -
12-06-26 12:42The profits are subject to taxation, with a UK based company this relatively easy to collect, none UK owned collecting tax becomes very difficult.
Directors of companies, will find it easier to close a plant in another country.
In war time, UK owned car plants (in the UK) can become production capacity for armaments.Last edited by olduser; 12-06-26 at 12:48.
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12-06-26 14:15Uber (taxis) does that, it would appear, for all aspects of the business.
I read of an out of work programmer in the USA, who decided he could work for Uber until some programming work turned up.
He found an application form on the internet, filled it in and got an immediate acceptance with a starting date and instructions to download an app onto his phone.
On the due date jobs appeared on his phone, and off he went.
He calculated payment due (from Uber) as he went, he noticed the actual payment was always less than his calculation.
He rang Uber and queried this, to be told the AI does the calculations.
He wrote a program for his own use to keep tabs of his work but always there was this underpayment.
Other drivers were complaining about the underpayment, he gave them copies of his app.
Others drivers had complained to Uber, and were told, AI did the calculation so it could not be wrong.
Eventually, he found what was causing the error, his app used the road miles (calculated by an internet map) but the AI was using, the 'as the crow flies distance' from Google map.
He complained again and told the person where the error was being made.
Ubers response was to fire him.
So he rang Uber to ask why he had been fired, to be told they did not know why, only that the AI had branded him as a trouble causer and should not be employed!
This not a story of the failings of AI but rather, the failings of humans when AI is used without care, and an understanding of it's limitations.
Last edited by olduser; 12-06-26 at 14:35.
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12-06-26 16:16
I must say that sounds like an urban myth.
When you book an Uber, they quote you a price. That is based on mileage, demand, and driver availability, and no doubt other factors. If you accept, they offer the job to the drivers who are logged on, and quote them the rate, so the drivers know up front what they'll be paid and can decide whether to accept.
Also, when I was using Uber a lot some time ago, they calculated distances using the road network. I can't imagine they've taken the backward step to use the obviously inaccurate crow-flies mileage. -
14-06-26 14:22
Unfortunately, the book I read that in was in the time I was trying 'Kindle Unlimited', the books are free but only stay on the users Kindle for two weeks.
The book was written about the time AI was being considered for use in Autonomous vehicles.
If you recall, there was a time where Uber almost stopped when drivers rebelled, in the end they managed to negotiate better working conditions.
The story was one of several in a section of the book setting out to give examples of what had gone wrong where AI had been used, and how it went wrong.
The theme was, if AI was going to make decisions that were of consequence, it needs very carful setting up, testing, and periodical checks to see if it is doing as intended.
There is a tendency not to check the result because it is AI. -
Yesterday 19:25
In the past, yes, but after the chaos caused by the US auto workers union in 2023 and their ludicrous demands (40% wage increase for Stellantis workers) many manufacturers simply moved production to Mexico.
Same for Starbucks when the workers formed a union and immediately went on strike for more money Startbuck's answer was to start closing stores.
Vote union start looking for a new job was the message.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91413779...-restructuring
