[Rolebama]

Prompted by the Nostalgia thread.
My last three cars have all had red illumination of instruments etc, but with no way of turning them off, or dimming them. I could dim the warning lights on the Sceptre I had, Drain taps on engine block and radiator were useful when changing antifreeze. There were things like quarterlights for ventilation, fuel reserve switches or levers, drain plugs on gearboxes and diffs, and hosts of other useful gadgets, gizmos and instruments to hand. All gone, because manufacturers decided they added to the retail cost of the car via manufacturing costs. Yet we get key fobs or keyless entry for central locking, electric windows, satnav/multimedia systems, bluetooth, sound systems which do a multiplicity of other stuff, cruise control, air con, electric mirrors plus whatever else a manufacturer wants to put in, all listed as 'standard', as if they are giving them away. Personally, I would like a basic reliable, reasonably priced car with the ability to fit all the extras I want,

[Drivingforfun]

I'm starting to really like my parents' 2018 Toyota Aygo for this reason, it seems to be one of the newest cars you can get here that doesn't have loads of complications on it. It doesn't even have a turbo to go wrong! It loses some points for the touchscreen but it's quite a basic one so hopefully not much capacity for glitches and stuff

What you'd like @Rolebama I think is something they do in Japan, normally just with cars that driving enthusiasts buy though. They often sell an extremely basic model – beneath the lowest spec we'd get here – and everything was absolute basic other than the performance which was the same. The Toyota GT86 was a good example, it had very cheap seats a blanked off infotainment, but cost about £16,000 brand new

[olduser]

I think, manufacturers fit the bells and whistles because we buy them, I am not certain why we buy them though.

Maybe it's fashion, bragging rights, or not understanding the salesman and being too British to ask the salesman, "what doe's that do or what use is it?"

If I need the car to keep me in lane, brake when too close, keep a constant speed, or prevent me from breaking the speed limit, should I be driving?

[Rolebama]

@olduser I think the reason these cars sell is because it is all that is on offer, and we have turned into a 'want it now' culture. I recollect waiting weeks for a couple of cars because I wanted a particular colour or specific options included. When I worked as a motorcycle salesman I would sometimes spend hours on the phone trying to find a bike of the right colour because customers wanted their bike now. Most of the bikes came in boxes so had to be built and PDId. This could take a couple of hours, during which time I would be registering the bike. Lost a few sales because customers could not wait that long.

[Santa]

Many years ago, my brother bought a car that had a lot of extras. I remember him going on about his automatic windscreen wipers and auto headlamps, and me saying, "How hard is it to flip a switch to wipe the screen or dim the lights?"

I now have a car with all that and more, and frankly, I like it. When I bought it in 2015, I was nervous, so I paid for the extended warranty from Ford. A few months later, they paid for a replacement heater and, subsequently, rear brake discs. Apart from that, all I have paid for is the annual service, a battery, and a couple of sets of tyres.

My point is that much of the resistance to innovation stems from either envy or a dislike of change. A lot of the electronics on modern cars are there to reduce emissions and improve mpg as required by legislation.

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by Santa

Many years ago, my brother bought a car that had a lot of extras. I remember him going on about his automatic windscreen wipers and auto headlamps, and me saying, "How hard is it to flip a switch to wipe the screen or dim the lights?"

I now have a car with all that and more, and frankly, I like it. When I bought it in 2015, I was nervous, so I paid for the extended warranty from Ford. A few months later, they paid for a replacement heater and, subsequently, rear brake discs. Apart from that, all I have paid for is the annual service, a battery, and a couple of sets of tyres.

My point is that much of the resistance to innovation stems from either envy or a dislike of change. A lot of the electronics on modern cars are there to reduce emissions and improve mpg as required by legislation.

How will a the big screen TV that now replaces manually operated buttons and switches help with emissions? In fact all those gadgets will increase fuel consumption because the power needed to run them has to be generated by burning more fuel.
The reality is that with cars, just like cell phones the only way to make them stand out from the competition is to add useless power hungry gadgets calling them 'features'.
A classic example of pointless gadgets is in the world of motorcycles
https://powersports.honda.com/motorc...-wing/features
And at one time they even offered air conditioning as an option!!

[olduser]

My point is, the less the average driver has to do the less attention he devotes to driving, there are a few drivers who will still drive with all the bells and whistles but when I observe how traffic behaves today there are not many who are concentrating on driving. What I mean is anticipating, and therefore avoiding trouble, rather than waiting until it happens hoping they can react fast enough.

[NMNeil]

@olduser I wonder if the same argument was made when the first 'semaphore' turn indicator was introduced.
"Turn indicators!!!, you mean nobody will be paying attention anymore as they don't have to wind down the window and stick their arm out"
And even worse when the first radios were fitted as standard causing the driver to be distracted as he adjusted the radio volume and station.
Don't laugh, the powers that be considered that possibility and so introduced Rule 148 of the highway code 😁
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...music-35746084

[Santa]

Originally Posted by NMNeil

In fact all those gadgets will increase fuel consumption because the power needed to run them has to be generated by burning more fuel.

I think you overestimate the amount of power required. Older cars had serious amps running around the car, but these days it's more likely to be milliamps.

My car has LED lights all around (apart from the number plate for some strange reason), and they consume far less energy than the old incandescent lamps. The same applies to all the dashboard lights.

[Rolebama]

I just checked my infotainment system and apparently I can use a mic with it, acclording to the Manual. | may get a mic and try it out.

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by Santa

I think you overestimate the amount of power required. Older cars had serious amps running around the car, but these days it's more likely to be milliamps.

My car has LED lights all around (apart from the number plate for some strange reason), and they consume far less energy than the old incandescent lamps. The same applies to all the dashboard lights.

Painless Wiring here in the US make new wiring looms for restorations and the average weight for a complete 60's and 70's muscle car loom is about 10 pounds.
The new Bentley Bentayga wiring loom weighs 110 pounds.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...tleys-harness/
And yes, older cars had plenty of amps in those 10 pounds of wires and the 110 pounds have devices that only use milliamps, but they have far more useless devices each drawing a few milliamps each than the older cars.

[Santa]

Not really fair to compare a car that has incorporated just about every possible electrical and electronic gadget available in a "bespoke" wiring harness to a modern mass-production car.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by NMNeil

@olduser I wonder if the same argument was made when the first 'semaphore' turn indicator was introduced.
"Turn indicators!!!, you mean nobody will be paying attention anymore as they don't have to wind down the window and stick their arm out"
And even worse when the first radios were fitted as standard causing the driver to be distracted as he adjusted the radio volume and station.
Don't laugh, the powers that be considered that possibility and so introduced Rule 148 of the highway code 😁
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...music-35746084

No they got distracted by checking to see if the arm had come out.😏