20 mph
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12-12-25 17:08The psychology behind stuff like this is interesting
Similar topic but a bit of a tangent... there's something called a time-saving bias whereby people already travelling at a higher speed tend to overestimate the time-saving benefit of increasing speed further; at a lower speed people tend to underestimate
Real life example – traveling at 84mph on a 70 limit motorway people probably feel they're barreling along and saving lots of time... someone doing 24mph in a 20 zone probably doesn't even realise what they're doing when in fact both of those are proportionally the same amount faster -
13-12-25 23:26All new cars sold in the EU and UK already have speed limiters fitted as standard; maybe time to turn them on.
"The fact that a UK driver is caught travelling in excess of 112mph every six hours highlights the importance and relevance of our speed limiter technology. It is a feature we built in by design, and the findings of our research suggest it is the right approach to take."
https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/car...riving-offence -
14-12-25 13:52
I think, the main factors with 20MPH speed limits is the novelty, and boredom.
They novelty aspect derives from the fact the car feels different, sluggish and unresponsive if in the usual 30MPH gear, or a bit too responsive, if in an appropriate gear, resulting in a 'jerky' or over 'active' ride.
Caused I think, because for many drivers driving is mostly habit rather than being an activity.
But the novelty means the driver will be paying a little more attention than is normal for them.
Boredom - the scene is not changing as quickly as usual, the unconscious reaction is to speed up to make the scene change at the usual rate, back into the habit zone.
Given enough time both these effects will be cancelled by becoming the new normal.
Boredom is at the root of a very large proportion of crashes, or at least what boredom implies.
The implication is, there is nothing interesting to do, or I have been doing the same thing for too long but how can this be if you are driving a car?
BRAKE, and others will be saying no no, most crashes are caused by cars going too fast - well yes, when there is a crash the result would have been different (less traumatic) if the vehicles involved had been going slower but I argue, if all parties, drivers, pedestrians even, had being paying full attention it probably would never have happened.
Crashes don't just happen, if we could run time backwards we would find the point where the crash became inevitable started seconds before hand, and could have been avoided.
One driver recently commented, while we were discussing this subject, "your saying when driving I must constantly be on the lookout for potential hazards, on the road, footpaths, side streets, parked cars!?" Yes, "but I would be knackered if just driving to the shops!"
I don't think any further comment is needed.Last edited by olduser; 14-12-25 at 13:56.
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14-12-25 14:02
I am not sure about this, I think that an engine that suddenly does not respond can be dangerous. Perhaps an obtrusive alarm that cannot be turned off would be better, or how about a sign outside the car saying, "BREAKING SPEED LIMIT BEWARE"
The problem, in my view, is related to modern cars, the driver is detached from the mechanicals and the road.
In older cars, at speed the engine, and road noise reminded you, and were worrying, keeping the car on the road at speed was harder, stopping it would be difficult, these all added up to an effective deterrent.Last edited by olduser; 14-12-25 at 14:10.
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14-12-25 14:19I am now in the habit of setting the cruise control on 20mph roads. Purely because I get frustrated at the delay they cause to my journey, making it difficult for me to stick to that limit. Before I started using the cruise control, I would find my speed creeping up.
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14-12-25 18:14
You already have those, they are big circular signs by the side of the road with a number in them, and obviously they don't work, so maybe it's time to try something else, speed limiters being the most obvious choice. -
15-12-25 11:30
My sign was meant to be on the car, to automatically illuminate when the car is exceeding a speed limit.
The thought, though very unlikely to be implemented, is to tap into the idea that perpetrators feel anonymous while in their cars particularly with speeding, "I will be gone before anyone realises I am speeding."
The speeding fine without attending court was a step in the wrong direction, the offence is kept under wraps.
Ask smokers about this, society no longer approves (well in the UK), their problem is if they smoke it is obvious to everyone, the smokers complain of the disapproving looks, feeling stigmatised etc.
If the media were to interview speeders, along the lines, here is Mr/Ms (full name), who regularly speeds, could you tell us why, in spite of the known risks do you do this?
Have you considered getting psychiatric help for your inferiority complex that is making you show off?
If you save time, which is doubtful, what will you do with the saved extra seconds?
As to the speed restriction signs, disobeying these is all part of the showing off...
But it will not happen because it's not British, because it might embarrass the ones who get caught!Last edited by olduser; 15-12-25 at 11:38.
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Community Manager15-12-25 11:38I use my car's limiter now , rather than the cruise control, which I used to use. I got caught out after missing a change in limit from a motorway gantry - my cruise control obviously doesn't adjust, or even acknowledge the change - using my limiter now I get an alert when the limit changes and I adjust my car's limiter at the touch of a button then. In amongst the technology here, I'm also trying to make myself much more aware of limits and what I'm doing!
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15-12-25 12:04I put a post on here a while ago pointing out the single sided speed limit signs on a drive through some Surrey villages. It was only because I was in a bit of a convoy that I wasn't caught speeding. Seeing brake lights up ahead but not understanding why, then seeing NSL or 50mph on leaving villages. Checking the other side in my mirrors and finding nothing where the 30mph sign should be.
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15-12-25 19:02I do understand that the ISC speed limiters have some issues with not reading the speed limits correctly etc, but I'm more thinking of a basic speed limiter that limits the top speed of all vehicles to 80 mph. I chose 80 mph because if I said 70, which i believe is still the national speed limit in the UK then someone would always come up with "But I might need some extra speed in an emergency", so if it's set to 80mph then you have an extra 10 mph for those 'emergencies'
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16-12-25 12:53Let's face it - nothing which will work will ever be done because too much money is taken in from cameras and Speed Awareness courses.
I think it was on Tomorrow's World where a guy had come up with a system that, when a car passed a certain point, a radio beam set a speed limiter in a car passing. This was, I think, back in the 60s. I remember the equipment was cumbersome in the car, but that was 60yrs ago, so I'm sure it could be miniaturized and with advances in technology could be made to work. But we come back around to my first paragraph. -
17-12-25 15:46
I once built into an electronic ignition system I had made, a rev limiter.
The limit was adjustable, from zero to 15k but not calibrated, so for the first run I set it about midrange on the adjustment.
Even though I was out testing it, I felt lost, and mildly panicked when the power stopped (about 5k), the ignition was interrupted until the revs fell back a few revs.
In the end I incorporated a light on the dash whenever the limiter cut in, and that felt better.
Now a days engines can rev fairly high without damage, and I assume most ECU's will incorporating rev limiters, and do so by turning fuel off.
The point is sudden loss of power, is alarming enough to cause a crash while the driver works out what has happened, or in the middle of an overtake, ill advised or not.Last edited by olduser; 17-12-25 at 15:53.
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17-12-25 16:20The speed limiter fitted to most cars is part of the cruise control and is set by the driver.
I use mine at 20mph limits to avoid inadvertently speeding. I accelerate to 20 and press the button. After that, even flooring the pedal has no effect. As I speed up, it doesn't dramatically cut out; it simply stops accelerating - no shock, no alarm. -
17-12-25 17:03
I have been watching a series on Rocu TV about Air liner crashes/major events.
Starting with the early jets with manual controls through to the fly by wire systems.
The series was put together from eye witness accounts, cockpit and flight recorders, and relevant filmed archives.
Everything about flying is circumscribed by checklists, with every crash the outcome will more checklists, and with fly by wire, come more checklists.
Back with the early jets, if there was a problem say a control cable was broken it was easy to establish what was wrong, and the crew could get on with, how can we get back on the ground safely problem?.
They either did or they didn't but the crew could put in maximum effort in trying to work around the problem.
In the series when they get to fly by wire aircraft, when something go's wrong, now the computer system has to be considered, is what is telling the pilots correct?
Often the software is never aware that X or Y can happen, and so it becomes lost when X and Y do happen but it keeps on delivering data!
If the pilots try something none standard the system may be preventing the action or triggering alarms.
So when everything is fine and normal then the systems a very good but you don't really need them but when things go wrong the systems don't help they get in the way.
And before the pilots can make any move, they have to find and check the appropriate check list.
The point? Speed limiters are one more system in a car for the driver to live with. -
17-12-25 17:12
But I think that is different because that is what you are expecting to do.
I was thinking, the speed limiter will not be in regular use so when it do's step in the driver will be accelerating and, suddenly there is no more power.
Of course, we can suppose that some will use it as a cruise control! -
18-12-25 00:22
One day someone will join the dots and realize that they could save countless lives if they limited the top speed of all cars and motorcycles.
But I'm not holding my breath. -
19-12-25 11:06
I think it would be nice if all new cars sold in the UK had a limiter, a great many now have ACC amongst many many other safety systems including ALA etc but my new car definitely does not have a limiter, I wish it did. I now live in a rural area but when I did live in London the 20mph limit was at best a nuisance and at worst a serious distraction! One was constantly scanning the speedo to ensure one was not above the 20 limit, not all cruise control systems operate at 20 or below, when that ‘scanning period’ would have been far better used watching out for electric scooters or bicycles zooming off of pavements into the road to avoid a pedestrian or cutting across vehicles near traffic lights to avoid having to stop! Then you have the driver who either has cloned plates or doesn’t care about speed cameras who sits on your bumper while trying to intimidate you into driving above the legal limit for that particular road, that used to be referred to as tail gating. What is the solution? Well my last Rage Rover was able to be set as low as 15mph and that was what I set it at, constantly, while in 20 mph zones.
As I explained to an unhappy police officer, after he had breathalysed me, presumably for driving too slow, in his opinion, ‘speed kills sir’ so slower has to be better, doesn’t it? -
19-12-25 13:55
Whilst I agree to a degree, in your description of driving at 20MPH, you were describing driving too fast for the conditions, you had insufficient time to attend to conditions around you.
The only remedy I know of is to slowdown! -
19-12-25 14:44
Having thought about this a little more, there are two choices that might work.
Ban large engines.
Or design the limiter to give a warning it is going to limit 2 or 3 MPH before it does, " I am about to limit".
Or there again what I have mentioned before, have a very obtrusive alarm whenever the vehicle is above the speed limit but no actual limit. -
19-12-25 14:52
Sorry ! Was that reply for me ! I don’t think I mentioned anything about driving too fast for the conditions? What I was trying to convey and indeed thought I had, was that a driver would spend more time trying to maintain that 20mph to avoid an average speed system penalty than is perhaps safe. I resolved that likelihood by setting the limiter to 15mph
I don’t think that could be described as ‘driving too fast for the conditions’
If I’ve replied to a remark that wasn’t in relation to my original post then please accept my apologies. -
19-12-25 16:45
We could have misunderstood each other, I certainly did set out to offend, if I have I too apologise.
What I was trying to say was, when we are unable to pay attention to everything we should, (it look to me that is what you were saying, 'watching speedo, looking for hazards etc'.) we need to slow down no matter what the speed limit is!
It appears to have crept into the modern driving test, 'we must make progress', which gets interpreted as, 'we must run at the speed limit', there have been many times in a busy high street when the safe speed (for me) was 10 - 15 MPH, due to the what was going on, on an and off the road. While I can only assume, those who wanted to drive at the limit were not looking, or just could not see the hazards.Last edited by olduser; 19-12-25 at 17:11.
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19-12-25 17:16Hi Seal,
We could have misunderstood each other, I certainly did set out to offend, if I have, I too apologise.
What I was trying to say was, when we are unable to pay attention to everything we should, (it looks to me that is what you were saying, 'watching speedo, looking for hazards etc'.) we need to slow down no matter what the speed limit is!
It appears to have crept into the modern driving test, 'we must make progress', which gets interpreted as, 'we must run at the speed limit'.
There have been many times in a busy high street when the safe speed (for me) was 5 - 15 MPH, due to the what was going on at the time, on an and off the road.
I can only assume, those who wanted to drive at the limit were not looking, or just could not see the hazards.Last edited by olduser; 19-12-25 at 17:18.
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19-12-25 18:37@olduser Not offended old chap, as a former Class 1 Police driver I am very rarely offended or indeed surprised by anything. Have a great festive period.
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20-12-25 19:24
It does if it's later than July 2024, but it hasn't been activated....yet.
" Interestingly, the law doesn’t just apply to brand new cars, but also to any unregistered cars lingering on lots after the law passes, so buyers considering a new car might make that deal before July 7 as dealers try and shift stock that may be harder to sell after the ISA has been retrofitted or activated. "
https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/m...in-europe-u-k/
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-the-eu-and-ni -
20-12-25 19:53
Well I never knew that, I bought my new car in April 2025 and to date none of the OTA Updates have included a limiter ! Oh well, suppose I’ll just have to wait and see if they include that in any future updates.Thank's for the info and I’ll keep a check on and report back to the forum if anything happens. -
20-12-25 21:58
I found this - When questioned by Which?, the Department for Transport confirmed that the new law would apply to Northern Ireland, but that it would not be mandated in England, Scotland or Wales. However, it's likely new cars sold in the UK will still have ISA technology as standard.
So not fitted currently as standard in England - Scotland or Wales which explains why my new 2025 vehicle doesn’t have it. As always it appears the government of the day doesn’t have a definitive policy but the EU does. Phew, at least I’m safe as far as an MOT is concerned if I actually decide to keep my vehicle that long.
