[Lily]

Hi everyone,

I don’t know about you, but I was anxiously waiting for this year’s Autumn Budget to come out (there's a cost of living crisis going on, every penny counts!) . Now that it has, let’s talk about what it means for car drivers.

The Chancellor has decided to keep the 5p fuel duty cut in place for now. That’s good news for petrol and diesel drivers, saving around £3 every time you fill up.

The biggest change, though, affects electric and plug-in vehicle owners. The government has announced a new per-mile charge for EV and plug-in hybrid drivers, called eVED.

Here’s what it could look like:

• Electric vehicles: 3p per mile, which works out to about £300 extra per year for someone driving 10,000 miles.
• Plug-in hybrids: 1.5p per mile, around £150 extra per year.

This is the second major tax update for electric vehicles this year. The first was that EVs will now pay road tax. Want to learn more about the changes? Click here.

What do you think about these changes?

Will the new eVED tax influence your choice of car in the future? Are you already driving electric, and how do you feel about these new costs?

Please remember to keep the conversation friendly and respectful of everyone’s views. 😎🧡

[Nick]

Keeping my petrol costs down is a good one for me - although I certainly don't fill up as often as I did 5 or 6 years ago when I was driving to an office every day!

Interesting to see the changes coming in for EV and PHEV owners - I'd love to hear the thoughts of anyone that owns one...

[olduser]

If they want to charge VED on electric cars fine but not based on mileage because that is a retrospective charge, and is difficult for people to budget for, especially in theses hard times.
Life is simple if we pay VED, and insurance once per year, we have a rough idea what servicing is likely to cost, after that we are left with fuel.
If I want to travel a long distance, I can only do that if I can afford the fuel, before the journey starts, no money no fuel, no journey.
Once the journey is over, it can be forgotten in monetary terms.

Civil serpents have been trying to get a mileage charge into use for years, and I see this as another attempt.
All it do's is add to the costs of collecting revenue from vehicles as there will have to be some way of verifying the mileage.

I think everyone has understood there would have to be VED on EV's at some time, we have to have money to pay for the upkeep of the road system.
If now is the time, then do it but don't use it as an excuse to drag in mileage charge which just complicates life for everyone, and complication = cost.

The amount of usage of cars is not relevant, when the car was taxed, in effect, the deal is there is road space for it, even if the car never leaves home theoretically road space has to be provided and maintained.
That, to me feels fair, logical, and easy to collect, if there must be a charge for the amount of use then tax the fuel, though if taxing fuel is necessary that really means VED is too low!

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by olduser

If they want to charge VED on electric cars fine but not based on mileage because that is a retrospective charge, and is difficult for people to budget for, especially in theses hard times.
Life is simple if we pay VED, and insurance once per year, we have a rough idea what servicing is likely to cost, after that we are left with fuel.
If I want to travel a long distance, I can only do that if I can afford the fuel, before the journey starts, no money no fuel, no journey.
Once the journey is over, it can be forgotten in monetary terms.

Civil serpents have been trying to get a mileage charge into use for years, and I see this as another attempt.
All it do's is add to the costs of collecting revenue from vehicles as there will have to be some way of verifying the mileage.

I think everyone has understood there would have to be VED on EV's at some time, we have to have money to pay for the upkeep of the road system.
If now is the time, then do it but don't use it as an excuse to drag in mileage charge which just complicates life for everyone, and complication = cost.

The amount of usage of cars is not relevant, when the car was taxed, in effect, the deal is there is road space for it, even if the car never leaves home theoretically road space has to be provided and maintained.
That, to me feels fair, logical, and easy to collect, if there must be a charge for the amount of use then tax the fuel, though if taxing fuel is necessary that really means VED is too low!

The mileage charge is a replacement for fuel duty, not for VED. Electric car owners will pay VED as well!

[Seal]

I struggle to understand the chancellors thought process on the charging of an extra fee for hybrid vehicles! Yes they have a battery, yes they have a fuel tank but there is my issue. The battery fitted has an extremely limited range and in general is limited to 40 or at very best 70 miles of range. 1.5 pence per mile ! Sounds such a small amount but then the hybrid driver is already contributing the same, tax wise, as the petrol or diesel driver every time they fill up with fuel and in fact also pays another tax on top of the proposed 1.5 ppm because every time they charge their car they also pay VAT at 5% on their electricity bills. So for being daft enough to be steered towards an EV Hybrid purchase they are now going to be punished three times ! We all have to pay tax but it appears some have to pay way more than others to get about. Oh and when will the government add a tax based on weight ! Whispers abound that they wanted to slap that on as well with rates based solely on if you own an SUV. What next, a window tax on vehicles? You couldn’t make it up, or could you.

[Seal]

@Lily I don’t understand why a hybrid owner is going to be taxed so heavily? They pay the same tax as a petrol or diesel driver at the pump, they pay the same RFL, they pay VAT at 5% plus their electricity bill every time they charge their car and now they are to be charged 1.5 ppm So I have to ask why? Why does a hybrid vehicle attract such high operating costs. It’s not heavier than an all electric vehicle, it’s not exactly dirty so why? Whatever next, a window tax on vehicles! Nothing would surprise me anymore. Hybrid buyers punished for living in areas where owning a fully electric vehicle is just not a viable option at the present time.

[Seal]

@Beelzebub
As a charge the PPM is, certainly for the Hybrid drivers, an unfair tax. Why ! Because they already pay the standard fuel duty on any fuel they buy but now the chancellor, showing a massive lack of understanding of how a hybrid vehicle works, has decided that not only will they have to pay at the pump they will also be charged at 1.5ppm along with their RFL
And how will that ppm tax be applied ? Will it be only on the electric mileage or as is far more likely, charged on the total mileage for the year.

The fully electric vehicle owner gets charged 3ppm along with the RFL and it is obviously only applicable to their electric mileage because they have no other power source.

The petrol driver and the diesel driver pay no pence per mile because they already paid for it within the cost of their fuel and RFL

Who was the bright spark within the government who decided that a hybrid car owner should be punished with two fuel taxes and the RFL, oh and let us not forget that every time the EV or Hybrid driver charges their vehicle at home they also encounter the 5% VAT on their electricity bills.

Saving the planet has little or nothing to do with these charges, drivers were conned into buying diesel cars because “they were cleaner” they were then conned by unscrupulous manufacturers who misled them by falsely claiming lower emissions on specific brands. Yet again it appears those of us who are not in a position to go “fully electric” because of the distance, location or financial constraints of using charging stations are to be punished yet again. I would like to say that I am astonished but I’m not, angry certainly but not surprised.

[Seal]

Oops it seems like the drafts also got sent 🤦🏻‍♂️ The chancellor and I, it seems, have gremlins in the system. Sorry everyone, I’m not as mad as I currently appear.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by Seal

@Lily I don’t understand why a hybrid owner is going to be taxed so heavily? They pay the same tax as a petrol or diesel driver at the pump, they pay the same RFL, they pay VAT at 5% plus their electricity bill every time they charge their car and now they are to be charged 1.5 ppm So I have to ask why? Why does a hybrid vehicle attract such high operating costs. It’s not heavier than an all electric vehicle, it’s not exactly dirty so why? Whatever next, a window tax on vehicles! Nothing would surprise me anymore. Hybrid buyers punished for living in areas where owning a fully electric vehicle is just not a viable option at the present time.

The only hybrid cars subject to the mileage charge are plug-in vehicles.

I believe the logic is that the electricity they use is a replacement for some of the (taxable) petrol or diesel they would otherwise use. I guess it's arguable whether 1.5p is a fair compromise, rather than say 1.0p or 2.0p, but that ship has sailed.

[Seal]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

The only hybrid cars subject to the mileage charge are plug-in vehicles.

I believe the logic is that the electricity they use is a replacement for some of the (taxable) petrol or diesel they would otherwise use. I guess it's arguable whether 1.5p is a fair compromise, rather than say 1.0p or 2.0p, but that ship has sailed.

I’m not questioning the cost that is what it is right or wrong. My concern is more how the chancellor intends to collect it? I suspect that she will, most likely, collect on the entire mileage rather than just on the electric portion of the mileage! I don’t think it is unfair of a hybrid driver to baulk at the idea of having to pay twice on the petrol portion of the mileage !
After all, the vast majority of fuel put into the tank is solely duty. But hey ! Each to their own I suppose.

[Drivingforfun]

Plug-in hybrids is a funny one

During the last decade or so they've held a special category for company car drivers. They are put through the same emissions/economy test as normal combustion cars, and seem to be configured with this in mind. This is why you get the ludicrous official mpg figures of 200-300+.

Crucially, this also means they're put in the lowest brackets for company car drivers, saving them hundreds per month in benefit in kind tax.

Going through the expenses of companies who put these cars through their books, I've seen that in most cases fuel use hasn't changed significantly, pre- and post- buying one of these cars...in some cases it even goes up (presumably because, when these cars are run on petrol, they're less efficient due to the extra weight)

Essentially, a lot of company car drivers are buying these cars – cars that the nature of their job means their usage will be the total opposite of what the cars are designed for – solely to save on tax... they're then happily paying for a bit more fuel each month because they're still better off after the BIK tax saving

Private owners being the obvious exception (though I don't think there are an awful lot) I'd struggle to sympathise with PHEV owners claiming the taxman has cheated them, as they've been doing the same for the last several years 😏

[Seal]

I’m one of those ‘few private owners’ Ah well such is life, I’ll get rid before 2028 and go back to a proper V8 petrol vehicle, but it will be a ‘classic car’ Perhaps I’ll go back to a Yank Tank I’m currently very sad I ever sold my Hemi 😢

[Lily]

@Seal at thos point, a window tax on cars wouldn't sound crazy to us! 😑😭 It's just too frustrating, we are supposed to switch to electric vehicles by 2030 or 40?

How are we going to achieve that if there are no incentives or advantages to owning a hybrid or an electric car? Some of us will do it for the sake of the planet, but many needed that financial incentive.

Anyway, welcome @Seal, a pleasure having you in the Community.

[Seal]

@Lily
I’m trying to get my head around the fact that if you decided to take your hybrid or full EV on a driving holiday across Europe, for a couple of weeks, and you pay the relevant fuel duty in each of the countries you drive through at the end of the year would HMRC then demand that you pay the 3ppm or 1.5ppm duty on those holiday miles! Whatever next? Would you be expected to retain each and every receipt for hotels, food, petrol etc and pay the British VAT rates on all of those as well ! Rachel from accountants hasn’t thought it through has she? Or maybe she has, or maybe I just have and it’ll be all my fault ! There is little point in trying to be green, but I can offer some constructive advice. Let’s run this up the flagpole and see how it flies. Don’t buy any petrol for your hybrid car, charge it after and during every journey via a small generator thus saving the current pump tax, some £0.87 pence per litre, and just pay the 0.3 or 1.5ppm charge instead ! Simples. 🤭 Thank you for your welcome, I’m looking forward to being an active member of the forum.

[Lily]

@Seal simples! 😂

Looking forward to seeing you around here, and you have joined during a fantastic time, the festive period! 🎄

Here I am, trying to see the bright side... autumn budget and all. 😂

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by Seal

@Lily
I’m trying to get my head around the fact that if you decided to take your hybrid or full EV on a driving holiday across Europe, for a couple of weeks, and you pay the relevant fuel duty in each of the countries you drive through at the end of the year would HMRC then demand that you pay the 3ppm or 1.5ppm duty on those holiday miles! Whatever next? Would you be expected to retain each and every receipt for hotels, food, petrol etc and pay the British VAT rates on all of those as well ! Rachel from accountants hasn’t thought it through has she? Or maybe she has, or maybe I just have and it’ll be all my fault ! There is little point in trying to be green, but I can offer some constructive advice. Let’s run this up the flagpole and see how it flies. Don’t buy any petrol for your hybrid car, charge it after and during every journey via a small generator thus saving the current pump tax, some £0.87 pence per litre, and just pay the 0.3 or 1.5ppm charge instead ! Simples. 🤭 Thank you for your welcome, I’m looking forward to being an active member of the forum.

This has been raised before on other forums, and it seems that you'll be charged on the total mileage, regardless of where it accumulated. To do anything else would be too cumbersome, and disproportionately expensive to set up and operate for a very small minority of the total miles .

However, the government is running a consultation, so you can make your views known. But the phrase "howling at the moon" springs to mind.

[Lily]

@Beelzebub is the consultation online?

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by Lily

@Beelzebub is the consultation online?

AFAIK yes. I don't have a link to hand, but Google will have.

[Seal]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

This has been raised before on other forums, and it seems that you'll be charged on the total mileage, regardless of where it accumulated. To do anything else would be too cumbersome, and disproportionately expensive to set up and operate for a very small minority of the total miles .

However, the government is running a consultation, so you can make your views known. But the phrase "howling at the moon" springs to mind.

Howling at the moon ! Would that be us or the Chancellor ? My money is on the Chancellor but the response surely is ‘if not us then who, if not now then when’

My analogy with respect to a ‘Window Tax on vehicles’ is based on a real tax, the results of which we can see around the country in grand houses where windows were bricked up to avoid that tax, the tax on light failed and so should this ridiculous tax proposed on mileage. If it costs more to enforce a tax than it can ever possibly raise then it is doomed to fail and we should fight it.

Of course with such low numbers of potential payers currently being affected and the general apathy of the British public to react to being unfairly punished I understand that action is unlikely, or is it ! I shall seek out the ‘consultation’ and thank you for your input.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by Seal

Howling at the moon ! Would that be us or the Chancellor ? My money is on the Chancellor but the respoMy analogy with respect to a ‘Window Tax on vehicles’ is based on a real tax, the results of which we can see aronse surely is ‘if not us then who, if not now then when’

.

"Howling at the moon" is an expression meaning "to make a futile or hopeless effort, such as complaining or protesting without effect".

I was not referring to the Chancellor!

[Drivingforfun]

@Seal good on you 👍

My sights are on a Mustang for the future, but I really like the old ones from the 60s. I'd love to have one of those as a daily, I'd use it daily, year round too. Then have a modern little Japanese runabout as a backup for those days when the Mustang decides it needs a lie-in 🤣

[Seal]

@Beelzebub
Oh I’m well versed both with the expression and in actually howling at the moon, my family are Werewolves. I also won’t accept being overcharged in a restaurant and I’m always happy to argue when overcharged, though I do accept there are many who are happy just to pay up and leave a tip. 😉

[Seal]

@Drivingforfun
I love my Yank Tanks, of course they are agricultural in build quality, they have as much finesse as a Ferguson Tractor but by the Lord Harry they sound astonishing with their exhaust pipes reverberating along with their V8s

I recently sold two of my collection. A 300M 6.3 ltr which gave sterling service for 18 years and a new model Dodge Charger. Neither were technically that sophisticated but I forgave them for the ‘smiles per miles’ I got on each and every journey. I did almost purchase a new Shelby Mustang but, and I know it sounds mad, I didn’t want the stripes and Ford refused to sell me one without as they are, I was informed, a trade mark and only sold with ! A friend did buy and I’m envious every time I am within a couple of miles of it🤭

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Seal

@Lily
I’m trying to get my head around the fact that if you decided to take your hybrid or full EV on a driving holiday across Europe, for a couple of weeks, and you pay the relevant fuel duty in each of the countries you drive through at the end of the year would HMRC then demand that you pay the 3ppm or 1.5ppm duty on those holiday miles! Whatever next? Would you be expected to retain each and every receipt for hotels, food, petrol etc and pay the British VAT rates on all of those as well ! Rachel from accountants hasn’t thought it through has she? Or maybe she has, or maybe I just have and it’ll be all my fault ! There is little point in trying to be green, but I can offer some constructive advice. Let’s run this up the flagpole and see how it flies. Don’t buy any petrol for your hybrid car, charge it after and during every journey via a small generator thus saving the current pump tax, some £0.87 pence per litre, and just pay the 0.3 or 1.5ppm charge instead ! Simples. 🤭 Thank you for your welcome, I’m looking forward to being an active member of the forum.

A hybrid car is at it's best when there is a lot of braking because of the regeneration but if the battery is full it cannot regenerate.
Generating electricity is expensive (fuel and cash) when using a car engine or generator.

Taxi drivers locally (north east) are getting up to 60MPG with hybrid cars but only if they have auto gearboxes. What I read is that manual (gear) hybrids are not as efficient as auto because the driver messes up the engine electric motor control by changing gear at the wrong time.
I'm not sure there are any new manual hybrids on sale now?

[Seal]

I’ve only ever owned one plug in hybrid, the one I have at this moment, oh I’ve had a self charging electric car, a Lexus 300, but it never really input a charge big enough to make any difference and at best gave me a couple of miles for each long journey undertaken.

This new hybrid vehicle has an advertised electric range of 78 miles on a full charge and whilst I’ve only had it a few months and it is only just run in, it certainly doesn’t recharge itself or even add more than 5 to 7 miles of extra range into the battery after a 380 mile round trip ! I know because I’ve experienced it.

Around town it has no real impact on range despite the sales pitch but it can run on electric exclusively. So not that efficient in real terms. I didn’t buy it thinking it would, I bought it based on mild guilt about running V8 and V10 engines that returned at best 7 or 8 mpg and the impact that could have on the planet.

The truth, the reality is that every time a plane takes off or a ship takes to the high seas or an electric diesel train takes to the rails they all put out more particulates than any of my vehicles have ever done. Do I like this vehicle? Yes I do, I’m very pleased with it but will I keep it and suffer unjust taxation on it ? And the answer is no, I’ll go back to running my 4.4 Rage Rover or I’ll buy my 7ltr Dodge Viper and happily pay for the privilege of heavy fuel charges which is exactly the opposite of what any government say they want ! But then we know that isn’t what they want, what they want is tax revenue and plenty of it and drivers are that cash cow. 😉