[NMNeil]

A bit of background before watching the video.
Mr. Rossmann owns an electronic repair shop that specialized in repairing Apple laptops. Apple sued him because he wasn't an authorized repair facility; they lost. Apple sued him to try and stop him changing laptop batteries because Apple had designed the laptop so the battery could not be replaced; again they lost. Apple sued him for importing unapproved replacement parts; again they lost.
Mr. Rossmann became involved in the fast growing community pushing for the right to repair all products. This led in part to the mandate that all USB connectors be standardized; no more Apple releasing a new product but with a propriety connector forcing to you buy new earphones etc.
Rossmann started the FULU foundation which offers a cash reward to anyone who can hack appliances that would shut down if you did'nt buy subscriptions; for example.

Moving on to the point of this posting.

[Rolebama]

Yet another reason not to buy a particular EV. As the man says: How long before the rest follow suit?

[Drivingforfun]

I know it’s going off on a bit of a tangent, but one thing I think is the idea of selling performance upgrades over the air seems quite shrewd, for all parties involved - and the environment

Lots of people try to be economical when buying their car, then later decide they want performance upgrades

This new way: the customer gets their cheaper (to buy and insure) car, then later can scratch the performance itch without all the environmental waste of doing the work, or the insurance questionability (as the upgrade is presumably documented and impossible to hide)

[Santa]

I follow a Facebook forum dedicated to my make/model of car. A large percentage of posts are related to potential upgrades. Some are relatively simple software changes on cars that were downrated by the manufacturer. Many are upgrading the in-car-entertainment and navigation of older models to the current, and to alter the graphic display. Wheels are a popular upgrade as well, where the basic model came with small steel wheels.

To a lesser extent, some people have swapped the basic seats for the leather, heated and electrically adjustable ones that were fitted to the top of the range as new. The least expensive upgrade is to fit a faux leather cover to the steering wheel.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Drivingforfun

I know it’s going off on a bit of a tangent, but one thing I think is the idea of selling performance upgrades over the air seems quite shrewd, for all parties involved - and the environment

Lots of people try to be economical when buying their car, then later decide they want performance upgrades

This new way: the customer gets their cheaper (to buy and insure) car, then later can scratch the performance itch without all the environmental waste of doing the work, or the insurance questionability (as the upgrade is presumably documented and impossible to hide)

The onus is on the owner to point out upgrades to the insurers, it usually becomes a problem when there is a claim*.

Unless there is an agreement between manufacturers, and insurers for manufacturers to advise the insurers when an upgrade is made, which I think would be unlikely, it is left to the owner, or the insurer assumes all cars have the higher specification. I think, the later is probably the case because the unused upgrade still has to be repaired if damaged.

Jumping back to the new car, it cost the manufacturer what ever it cost to make the full specification model because the hardware is built in, so the lower specification car (to you) has to cost the same as full spec or the manufacturer go's bust.

*The insurers engineer or the body shop notice the modification, and suddenly the insurance is null and void!

[Nick]

To be fair, it's not necessarily null and void, but there are definitely complications and possibly consequences - essentially what the insurer will contend is that the car is riskier with the upgrades - beyond the standard spec - than the standard spec is. As such there would usually be an additional premium to pay before the claim is dealt with. If the car is written off then you could take that amount from the settlement, if it's repairable then the fee needs paying in advance.

[Santa]

Originally Posted by olduser

Jumping back to the new car, it cost the manufacturer what ever it cost to make the full specification model because the hardware is built in, so the lower specification car (to you) has to cost the same as full spec or the manufacturer go's bust.

Going back to the time when I was associated with the motor trade and had the pleasure of visiting several production lines, I have a fair idea of how manufacturers work.

A given car may be offered in as many as six or eight levels of trim. Often, the most basic model only exists so that they can advertise the model as "From a low price". I used to think that a production line would be set up to make a lot of one model, then another and so on. Not so. They are built in a sequence determined by sales, and this applies to trim level and colour.

All the models have the same basic configuration, but there will probably be three different specifications. Each of those will have more or fewer things activated according to the spec. The wiring loom and computer chips would be a major difference, so the basic models would not be wired for heated seats, etc. Mid-range cars will have the wiring, but it's not implemented in the lower levels. I'm sure you get the idea.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Santa

Going back to the time when I was associated with the motor trade and had the pleasure of visiting several production lines, I have a fair idea of how manufacturers work.

A given car may be offered in as many as six or eight levels of trim. Often, the most basic model only exists so that they can advertise the model as "From a low price". I used to think that a production line would be set up to make a lot of one model, then another and so on. Not so. They are built in a sequence determined by sales, and this applies to trim level and colour.

All the models have the same basic configuration, but there will probably be three different specifications. Each of those will have more or fewer things activated according to the spec. The wiring loom and computer chips would be a major difference, so the basic models would not be wired for heated seats, etc. Mid-range cars will have the wiring, but it's not implemented in the lower levels. I'm sure you get the idea.

I get your point Santa, but as I understand it, manufacturers are selling a car with what would have been extras but they are not available to the owner, until a fee is paid. Paying the fee makes the extra available because all that is needed is a change in software this can be done remotely. The hardware would have to be there for this to work.

[Santa]

@olduser

True, but what would you do if you were a production engineer in a car factory?

Fitting a wiring loom that could power heated seats, when they are not fitted, adds very little to the cost of production, and there are benefits from reducing the number of different looms. It would be different if the heated seats were fitted but not operable. But heated seats cost more than non-heated seats.

[Rolebama]

I have seen a number of cars destroyed because of the idea of 'one loom fits all'. People fiddling with their new cars find two brown cables, one with a male connector, one with a female. Connect the two together, one a direct feed from the battery to power a glowplug relay, and the other the earth for the glowplug relay. Regardless of burnt fingers and sparks, they persevere to put matters right. (British Leyland)
The other favourite for the fiddlers were of the same era. Disconnect all the black cables from the positive battery terminal, regardless of the red cover, and connect them, some stretched like a bowstring, to the negative post. Vice versa for red cables. Again, ignore all the sparks and glowing cables. (Ford)
Not to left out, Vauxhall decided it would be a good idea to sell a plug and play fog light kit which shared the same fuse as the cigarette lighter. After replacing the 10amp fuse for the umpteenth time, stick a 20amp fuse in and watch the loom go up when both in use. Happily(?) it was not uncommon for the fusebox to go first, hence saving another car burning out.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Santa

@olduser

True, but what would you do if you were a production engineer in a car factory?

Fitting a wiring loom that could power heated seats, when they are not fitted, adds very little to the cost of production, and there are benefits from reducing the number of different looms. It would be different if the heated seats were fitted but not operable. But heated seats cost more than non-heated seats.

I think you are making my point.
As I understand (I think it was a VW advert + a post on here), Heated Seats for example were fitted to the car and wired to the Body Modul but the Body Modul was not programmed to turn them on.
The buyer purchases the car (he thinks) without Heated Seats, the buyer may later decide heated seats was what he wanted, he contacts the dealer or VW, who arranges to have the Body Modul software adjusted for a fee.
The software can be adjusted via a mobile phone, or directly if the car has a Simcard, or when the car can make a WIFI connection.
This connection is also used for the car to send to VW running information, and therefore servicing requirements.

I use hospital transport at least 3 times a week, this can be a car or a transport ambulance, I have a private game, I look for how often I get into a vehicle that do's not have a service message on the dash, and how many times do I ride in that vehicle before any dash message is cleared?
Sadly the messages are usually there for weeks rather than days, I think this is why manufacturers are now interested in collecting running data, they can give the dealer more accurate information than the customer can, and have some defence on warranty claims.

[NMNeil]

@Rolebama I once had a job finding out why a Chevy truck transmission didn't work properly. There had been an under bonnet fire and much of the wiring had burned, so the owner had rewired it himself.
Now before you jump to conclusions he did a fabulous job. Soldered connections, no crimps, shrink tubing on all the connections and splices. It was a beautiful job.
The punchline; every last wire was blue because he only had a roll of that coloured wire. Took me most of the morning to find the crossed wires.
But back to the original posting, I wonder how long before Hyundai change their rear brake calipers.

[Santa]

@olduser
Not quite.

My Mondeo came with most of the "goodies" that were available in 2015, including heated seats. I frequent a Facebook group for that model, and a frequent enquiry is from people with base models that have the wiring but not the seats. They can fit heated seats from a scrap yard, and it isn't hard to tell the BM that they are there. I believe that later models don't have the wiring, which makes things much more difficult.

Obviously, VW worked differently, and I would not be at all surprised to find that enterprising VW owners have found a way to enable it without paying a dealer.

In my car, at least, the "service message on the dash" lights up around a month to six weeks before it's due. It is purely based on time, rather than any sensors in the car. It can take that long to get a booking with my main dealer.

[Rolebama]

A friend working at a manufacturers had a customer who exchanged his year old car for a new one. (He apparently changed his car every year). He only ever used the car to commute. He had an oil change light on the dash, which came on after 6,000 miles. His last car would light up around 11,000 to 12,000 miles. He asked why. Essentially the same car doing the same journey. My friend got the workshop staff to change the module for one from last year. Sure enough, back to 12,000 miles before oil change light comes on. The module was removed and the original refitted. The customer requested that the higher mileage module be refitted. All my friend could tell him was to watch the mileage counter, as he couldn't keep the earlier module as it was not homologated, and could void warranty. At £100 for an oil change that's only good for the dealers.

[olduser]

I wonder if there was any explanation or reference in the cars handbook?
Handbooks usually mention a shorter interval if the car is used on short journeys or exceptional conditions.

[NMNeil]

@olduser A couple from my Chevy owners manual

"When to Inspect the Engine Air Cleaner/Filter"
Inspect the air cleaner/filter at the Maintenance II intervals and replace it at the first oil change after 50,000 miles (83 000 km). See Scheduled Maintenance on page 6-4 for more information. If you are driving in dusty/dirty conditions, inspect the filter at each engine oil change.

"Automatic Transmission Fluid When to Check and Change"
A good time to check your automatic transmission fluid level is when the engine oil is changed.
Change both the fluid and filter every 50,000 miles
(83 000 km) if the vehicle is mainly driven under one or more of these conditions:
• In heavy city traffic where the outside temperature regularly reaches 90°F (32°C) or higher.
• In hilly or mountainous terrain.
• When doing frequent trailer towing.
• Uses such as found in taxi, police or delivery service.

If you do not use your vehicle under any of these
conditions, change the fluid and filter every
100,000 miles (166 000 km).