[patryk545]

Hi all, my friend recently just recently passed their test and is looking for a second hand car. Speed and comfort don't matter, just as long as it's reliable.

This article and a pile of others always talk about VW, Toyota and Seat. I'm just wondering, are there any other options?

[Lily]

@patryk545 Volvos are known for being very safe, and I own a Ford Fiesta (posh, I know! I shouldn't be bragging in here) and it has been a very reliable, easy to drive car.

What other options is your friend considering?

[olduser]

Ford Fiesta are good but be sure to get an engine with Dry (not running in oil) cam belt, in fact this is something to look for in all of the smaller engined modern cars, wet cam belts are trouble.

Find a car that you think you can live with then search the internet for reviews, forums for the brand or videos showing fixes, to get an idea of where it is likely to have problems. It is possible to get an overall picture of most cars theses days via the internet.

When you decide to buy, take someone experienced with you, you don't have to buy the first one there will be others, financially don't push yourself to the limit to buy, any car is a money pit, and will throw sudden unplanned costs at you at the most inconvenient times.

[Drivingforfun]

I'd say look into the car's history, not the brand, do some detective work and see what kind of life it's had

I'd choose a well maintained Alfa Romeo over a poorly maintained Toyota!!

[Rolebama]

I have, on a number of occasions, gone to dealer workshops and asked the opinions of the people that work on them.
I always smile when I see people recommending VWs. They make Skodas, which are just rebadged VWs, which are obtainable at a much lower price.

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

I always smile when I see people recommending VWs. They make Skodas, which are just rebadged VWs, which are obtainable at a much lower price.

I was conducting a smog check on a 3 year old VW in Vegas and the female owner just kept going on and on about how reliable it was and the superb quality of German built cars.
I opened the drivers door and showed her the 'Hecho En Mexico' on the VIN door tag. She went ballistic and supposedly took it back to the dealership demanding a full refund because her German car was actually a Mexican car. 🤣

[Rolebama]

Back in the 80s, we had a customer who sang the praises of his Ford P100 pick-up. It turned out it had been built in South Africa. (VIN gave it away.) He had had it for just over a year, but still got his full refund of purchase price as he had been assured it was a UK build.

[Drivingforfun]

@Rolebama I wonder if that was all a plan from the beginning to get a years' free motoring? No one could be that stupid and be allowed to hold a driving license surely

[olduser]

If it got to court, and he had been able to prove he had been told it was manufactured in the UK, it would have cost Ford much more than cost of pickup, and adverse publicity. Much cheaper to take it back, refund, and sell via auction.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by olduser

If it got to court, and he had been able to prove he had been told it was manufactured in the UK, it would have cost Ford much more than cost of pickup, and adverse publicity. Much cheaper to take it back, refund, and sell via auction.

To get to court, wouldn't he have had to claim some financial loss from the alleged deception?

Some might say a Dagenham-built Ford was worth less than an overseas one ...

[patryk545]

@Lily @olduser He was considering a ford fiesta but I put him off it😅 I seen too many people I know buy fiestas and having never ending problems with them😂

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

To get to court, wouldn't he have had to claim some financial loss from the alleged deception?

Some might say a Dagenham-built Ford was worth less than an overseas one ...

As I understand it, vendor's in the UK can be economical with the truth but cannot lie in describing what ever is on offer.

I think the line of attack would be, the buyer was given false information (the car was built in the UK) which it was not.
If the buyer asked this question, then it easy to argue that this was a factor in agreeing to buy the car, it follows that he did not get what he paid for.

Once in court, there is potential for endless argument from both sides, was the buyer given misleading information, did this influence the buyers decision?
I don't see that money comes into it, the vendor could try to argue that the buyer got a better vehicle but the question at issue would be, was he misled to enable the sale?
It could be said, if the buyer had looked at the vin number he would have known it was not manufactured in the UK but the court would (quite rightly) say the average customer would not be expected to know that.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by patryk545

@Lily @olduser He was considering a ford fiesta but I put him off it😅 I seen too many people I know buy fiestas and having never ending problems with them😂

I have have had both new and second hand Fiesta's without any problems but they were serviced as per the manufacturers schedule, and I suppose, I had the experience to know if the service had been done.

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by olduser

As I understand it, vendor's in the UK can be economical with the truth but cannot lie in describing what ever is on offer.

I think the line of attack would be, the buyer was given false information (the car was built in the UK) which it was not.
If the buyer asked this question, then it easy to argue that this was a factor in agreeing to buy the car, it follows that he did not get what he paid for.

But what if it was inferred that it was a British car built in the UK.
If you buy a Rolls Royce the inference is that it's a luxury British car made in England when in fact the engine and transmission is made in Germany by BMW then shipped to Crewe where the car is assembled.
Here to advertise something as "Made in the USA" it has to have a certain and very high number of US made components. This is why iconic US companies like Harley Davidson and Snap-On tools can no longer claim that their products are made in the USA.
A big difference in made in the USA and assembled in the USA from globally sourced components.

[patryk545]

@olduser I get it, it does not really matter what the car is it's more about how the car has been looked after right?

[Rolebama]

@patryk545 Not necessarily. Some are just plain badly designed, or are of poor build quality. Water ingress into fusebox, multiplugs under passenger carpets being damaged by passengers getting in and out, (and/or water ingress), overloaded ignition switches melting, fuel filters collecting water and freezing.
FWIW: I had a Fiesta once, a Mk4. It had the nasty habit of misfiring near electric pylons. Sometimes, going under the cables, it would cut out. Momentum would get me clear enough to restart it.

[Santa]

When I was a transport manager in the NHS, we had a fleet of Fiestas - at least 20 of them. They were all low-mileage users, and reliability was a key concern.

Most cars today are well-assembled, and the vital factor is maintenance, done according to the manufacturer's schedule by a competent garage.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by patryk545

@olduser I get it, it does not really matter what the car is it's more about how the car has been looked after right?

Yes, just about all cars these days will have a reasonable life provided they are serviced as recommended, there are a few exceptions but if you look around the internet they are or will be commented on - engines with the cam belt running in oil are an example.

In general, cars that have been serviced are unlikely to have been abused.

A TV program like Wheeler Dealers (on Quest at the moment) will give you ideas of what to look for in spotting has it been crashed?
There are several threads on this forum offer good advice, and of course there is information on the main RAC site about what to look out for when buying a used car.
But overriding all for a new driver, is cost of insurance.

There are plenty of cars out there so if the price is too good to be true, or it doe's not feel right walk away.

If you buy from a dealer, there is an automatic 6 months warranty, which is better than some manufacturers warranties' see;

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content...r?refresh=true

One thing to remember about the warranties is, if you find a fault don't tinker take it back to the dealer, you must give them the chance to put it right.

Good luck.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by NMNeil

But what if it was inferred that it was a British car built in the UK.
If you buy a Rolls Royce the inference is that it's a luxury British car made in England when in fact the engine and transmission is made in Germany by BMW then shipped to Crewe where the car is assembled.
Here to advertise something as "Made in the USA" it has to have a certain and very high number of US made components. This is why iconic US companies like Harley Davidson and Snap-On tools can no longer claim that their products are made in the USA.
A big difference in made in the USA and assembled in the USA from globally sourced components.

There are similar rules here about what can be called British made, these were documented when we were in the EU. By then car manufacturers were buying parts from all over, and certainly UK businesses were supplying parts to the EU and vice versa*, the rules were written in such a way that cars could be assembled in the UK, even if very few parts originated in the UK, and be called British made, to do otherwise would have wrecked the motor industry.

But in the case being discussed, the description of the goods (Made in Britain) was clearly wrong, and Ford sensibly picked the cheapest way out.

*
I noticed on the TV news, when Trump was on about tariffs against Canada, one manufacture was saying they imported rough engine valves from USA, machined them then exported them back to the engine makers in the USA, and I think there were incidences of this sort between the UK Europe.

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by olduser

I noticed on the TV news, when Trump was on about tariffs against Canada, one manufacture was saying they imported rough engine valves from USA, machined them then exported them back to the engine makers in the USA, and I think there were incidences of this sort between the UK Europe.

There was a company in the US which was importing TV's from China, opening the box and putting in the instruction manual, closing up the box as selling them as "Assembled in the USA".
But even the manual had been printed in China and imported along with the TV's.

[patryk545]

@olduser thank you your responses have been very helpful, he decided to go for a 2016 2L Leon from a dealership. He loves the car so far it seems in excellent condition. If it dies after the warranty runs out I'll keep you updated 😂😂

[olduser]

The sad thing is, the Chinese have highly automated factories to produce the TV's because they are prepared to invest. While western money do's not want to risk investing in industry, it can make more money by other means, if it invests it will be in non-western countries.

Whilst we (the consumers) just want something that works reliably, at a reasonable price, so buy stuff from China etc.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by patryk545

@olduser thank you your responses have been very helpful, he decided to go for a 2016 2L Leon from a dealership. He loves the car so far it seems in excellent condition. If it dies after the warranty runs out I'll keep you updated 😂😂

Thanks for letting us know @patryk545 - it'd be great to hear how he gets on with it!

[olduser]

Originally Posted by patryk545

@olduser thank you your responses have been very helpful, he decided to go for a 2016 2L Leon from a dealership. He loves the car so far it seems in excellent condition. If it dies after the warranty runs out I'll keep you updated 😂😂

Best wishes to them both.

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by olduser

The sad thing is, the Chinese have highly automated factories to produce the TV's because they are prepared to invest. While western money do's not want to risk investing in industry, it can make more money by other means, if it invests it will be in non-western countries.

Whilst we (the consumers) just want something that works reliably, at a reasonable price, so buy stuff from China etc.

That's the key reason for manufacturing decline in the EU and US, the consumers always demanding that products be cheap, and the only way that manufacturers could lower prices was to remove the most expensive part of manufacturing; the cost of labour.
Average hourly wage in the US $35
China $2.10
India $2.16 per day, or $0.27 an hour.
So we all got cheap products but at a very high cost to the economy.

[olduser]

One major problem USA had, and I think still has, on the world markets (export) was they wanted the world to buy what USA manufactured rather than manufacturing what the world wanted.
The USA remained isolated from the rest of the world, resulting in little pressure to progress, taking cars as an example, USA consumers were sure cars had to be big gas guzzling hulks that went out of fashion every year because they never saw anything any different.
The manufacturers knew this was what the USA wanted, because they never asked anyone, so they kept going to the same formula, they just ignored foreign imports until it was too late, finally in a panic, they tried to build more economical smaller cars but still using the old (big car) formula.

But fear not, Trump has the solution, he wants to starve Americans (by raising the cost of living) into buying American goods, and if that doesn't work he will send some bible thumping members of the gun club to sort you out.😏

[Lily]

@patryk545 really? Never had an issue with mine and he's getting old, bought it 2017 or 2018. Maybe I just got lucky!

[patryk545]

maybe the older models are more dodgy then I'm not sure 😂

[olduser]

Originally Posted by patryk545

maybe the older models are more dodgy then I'm not sure 😂

Perhaps that should read; maybe the older models of any car are more dodgy if they have not been maintained then I'm not sure 😂