[Bazza1234]

I got pulled over for no mot which was out by 3 weeks.
I explained to the officer I had my documents in glove box.
I pulled them out of my glove box to find it was out of mot and asked what should I do now.
I asked should I leave my car here and get it booked in asap and walk around the corner to my home.
the officer reacted with aggressive behaviour shouting for me to get out of the car which I was shocked with and declined.
he proceeded to try pull my window down and I asked him could he please take his hands out of my window as I am fearful about why he is reacting like this.
he was in a rage…. So I said I will put my window up if he doesn’t remove his hands away as I suffer from anxiety.
he didn’t so I put my window up but little did I know the sensors on my window come down if something is in the way 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦‍♂️ so my window comes down…. The officer swipes my keys then pulls a knife out and proceeds to cut my seatbelt which was mm from my neck.
I pressed my release button on my belt and got out my car in shock with the officer still cutting away at my seatbelt after exiting my car.
I said what the hell do you think you are doing… he didn’t respond just carried on cutting my belt until other officers arrived and then he stopped and put me in cuffs saying he could smell alcohol.
tried to do me for alcohol which came back under.
I was then arrested for having golf clubs and fishing rods and baseball bat in the back seat of my car which was deemed an offensive weapon.
is this really what the police can do to you for not having mot as I feel like I have been the subject of an officer abusing his authority.
let me know if you think this is right.

[Drivingforfun]

I want to say there's 3 sides to every story (yours', theirs, and the facts)

Not that you were lying but when emotional/super anxious you can misinterpret others and also come across in a way that you don't believe is aggressive but could be interpreted as so

All that said I don't automatically disbelieve what you said and I say that as the son of a police officer!! If you're totally accurate he should lose his job but the truth is it's your word against theirs

[olduser]

I wish we could help you but you really need legal advice.

If you do not know an appropriate solicitor, contact Citizens Advice (CAB) and they should guide you.

Best Wishes.

[Bazza1234]

Thanks guys
I’ve already got the police statement saying he cut my seatbelt off and video footage from police cams which they have put in to evidence and ref numbered it as I told the desk Sargent I wanted to make a complaint against the officer and how he treated me.
so I’m just finding it hard to find a solicitor who takes on cases like this as most of them are saying it’s a civil matter between me and the officer which I don’t understand as he was in uniform… he arrested me and was working for the police at the time so how is it a civil matter 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[Bazza1234]

@Drivingforfun
if I’m honest I want this officer to protect and serve the people who can’t do it themselves…. Not abuse there authority when it suits them or there having a bad day.
just imagine if they feel like they can get away with treating people like they did we me then how many more people has he abused.
he needs educating more about the way he should treat people as he was under the same laws I am so he should do his job properly without prejudice in my opinion.

[NMNeil]

You ignored an officers order to get out of the car. The officer, according to you pulled out a knife capable of cutting through a seat belt.

Tell us the full story and maybe TC1474 can tell us what knife he carries on duty because none of the knives I carried were capable of cutting a seat belt.

[TC1474]

If the Policeman genuinely acted and behaved as you described, then there are grounds to make a formal complaint.

That said, you must also accept that your behaviour (based on what you have said) will have contributed to the situation. All you had to do was be compliant and whilst your vehicle would have been seized it would not have accelerated to the level you describe.

As far as cutting your seat belt is concerned, No policeman I know carries a knife suitable to cut through a seat belt, and I am sorry, but if you were in the process of unbuckling your belt, then no copper I know would try to cut it off anyway unless you were (as an example) resisting arrest.

All Police cars do carry special seat belt cutters (attached t the small hammers for breaking glass) and he would have had to go back to his vehicle to get it, he would not carry it with him.

The only time I have ever cut a seat belt in nearly 30 years as a traffic cop was to release an occupant who was trapped as a result of a crash. If a person was arrested and the seat belt remained fastened, then either a crewmate or colleague would press the catch from the passenger side, of if I was single crewed or on the bike, then usually I could lean across the driver/suspect and release it myself.

So I do question why they would attempt to cut the belt?

Most if not all coppers these days wear body cams because of the very situations you describe and that they may find themselves in.

If what you say is accurate, then the body cam footage will substantiate your complaint, so make a formal complaint which will be passed to the Professional Standards department and they will investigate. If your complaint is substantiated then it will be progressed

[Beelzebub]

Having no MOT is a pretty trivial offence: it doesn't even incur points.

I find it difficult to believe that any policeman would get worked up about it. Perhaps there is more to this than the OP has told us?

[NMNeil]

We have something here called the sovereign citizen movement who believe the laws don't apply to them so they are within their 'rights' to refuse to open the door and get out of the car.
It never ends well for them after we bust out the car window, drag them out, maybe with the help of a 5 second Taser ride, and handcuff them while they are face down on the ground.
Funny thing is after they bond out of jail they immediately come to PD looking for their phone, which they used to record the whole incident, and are shocked that their phone is now evidence and they will get it back after the court has adjudicated the case in a few months. 🤣

[Bazza1234]

@NMNeil
I don’t know why you think it is funny if I was to have recorded the situation on my phone and wouldn’t get it back for a few months 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦‍♂️
this just makes me think you are or have been an officer of the law and abused your position in some manner or other yourself.
why would you laugh about something as serious as the situation that happened.
I have the statement the officer said 😏😁
he has tried to alter it to his advantage but he has just dug a bigger whole for himself as his partner did not sign off on his statement as they new he was in the wrong.
the camera footage will say it all….. even though they will try bury the footage.
I asked the Sargent on the desk for his partner’s footage aswell and the footage from the police car just to make sure they couldn’t say his footage has disappeared.
the desk Sargent said the footage isn’t that good on there cameras.
I said to the Sargent….. I bet if I was to have hit the officer it would be spot on footage wouldn’t it.
he laughed and said… well it is what it is.
I may have been a bit of a fool for not opening my door to them but it was an mot pull and I emphasised I have anxiety issues.
meaning….. I told the officer my car is my safety bubble and I would appreciate you if you understood my situation.
he didn’t want to know.
he was just annoyed that his lady partner he was with might be thinking less of him if he didn’t do something.
I get it.
small man syndrome kicked in.
but he is supposed to be a professional and can handle anything that comes at him…. But sometimes male ego gets the better of you…… well it did him.
so when I’ve finished with him in court I hope he can back his ego up when he is out having a drink or something with his friends when he has no badge or force behind him because he is going to need it 😏
people like him are worse than criminals as they think they can treat people like dirt and get away with it.
I believe in protecting the weak and helping people who can’t protect themselves…… but the force is a gang who thinks they can fight fire with fire and abuse there authority even when it’s not needed and think they can get away with it just because they think they are protected by the force 😂😂😂
well think again as people are already angry with what they have let slide now and are asking themselves why is the majority getting told what to do by the minority.
times have moved on.
so laugh away as there will come a time when you wish someone could help you but you where the downfall of your own doing by strangling as much as you could from the people who mean the most.
you take care and believe in whatever you want to believe or should I say….. believe you are invisible as you are the law 😂😂😂
what a joke.

[Bazza1234]

@TC1474
i know it sounds far fetched what I’m saying but it happened the way I said it did.
I have the officers statement saying he cut my belt and I wouldn’t go after this officer if he done the right thing….. but he went at things the wrong way and could have handled the situation a lot better than he did.
I can see you are one of the good guys…… but you are rare.
I have all the evidence I need and I’m using my time to make sure everything I have gets used to the best ability it can be used for as I wouldn’t want this to happen to someone else.
I hope you never change your morals as we need more people like you to protect us 👌👍

[Bazza1234]

Or we have an officer who thinks he has the right to change the laws to match his mood.
call it sovereigns citizens movement.
what you mean is abide by your law when it suits you otherwise you deserve everything you get am I right.

[Bazza1234]

@olduser
thanks for your support 👌👍

[olduser]

Originally Posted by NMNeil

We have something here called the sovereign citizen movement who believe the laws don't apply to them so they are within their 'rights' to refuse to open the door and get out of the car.
It never ends well for them after we bust out the car window, drag them out, maybe with the help of a 5 second Taser ride, and handcuff them while they are face down on the ground.
Funny thing is after they bond out of jail they immediately come to PD looking for their phone, which they used to record the whole incident, and are shocked that their phone is now evidence and they will get it back after the court has adjudicated the case in a few months. 🤣

From the UK, the USA police do look to be out of control, and have been so for many years but of course we only know what the media chooses to tell us.

In the case of mobile phones, UK and USA, it would be technically easy to copy the contents and give the suspect their phone back, allowing them to get on with their lives or build a case against any charges, the only reasons I can think of against that being done, are not good for the police image.
Or is it, in the eyes of the police, people are guilty until proven innocent?
I understand an experienced police officer will have gut feelings, and these will often point them in the right direction but a judge and jury are the ones who make the final decision.

I am not part of the anti police brigade, I admire the principal, and I would only take such a job as a last resort but policing by consent is easier, and safer for everyone than policing by force.
But I think I understand from within the police force there is likely to be great pressure for policing by force.

[Beelzebub]

OP. Forgive me if I've missed anything, but ...

You said you were told it was a civil matter. Have you been charged with a criminal offence? If so, what? No MOT is a very minor offence.

Or has it progressed to a civil court? Are you suing the officer, or the police force? Again, for what?

Either way, what stage has it reached?

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Bazza1234

@TC1474
i know it sounds far fetched what I’m saying but it happened the way I said it did.
I have the officers statement saying he cut my belt and I wouldn’t go after this officer if he done the right thing….. but he went at things the wrong way and could have handled the situation a lot better than he did.
I can see you are one of the good guys…… but you are rare.
I have all the evidence I need and I’m using my time to make sure everything I have gets used to the best ability it can be used for as I wouldn’t want this to happen to someone else.
I hope you never change your morals as we need more people like you to protect us 👌👍

We only have your version of events Bazza1234, not that I am suggesting you are wrong but it is as you saw it.

I would think, from the police officers point of view, a simple MOT check became something different when/if he saw a baseball bat (commonly used as a weapon in the UK) on the back seat, that should have started alarm bells ringing.

The wise thing for him to do would be to get you out of the car, to get you away from any other weapons you may have in the car, and get you under control to enable him to check out the car for other weapons.
With that in mind, can you see how it would look when you refused?

Having said that, it do's sound as though the officer did go over the top in trying to achieve that end.

Good Luck with your official complaint.

[Lily]

Hi @Bazza1234! Welcome to the Community, and thank you for sharing your experience with us. Sometimes, the best thing we can do after a difficult situation is to talk it through, and we’re glad you felt comfortable doing that here.

@Drivingforfun @olduser @NMNeil @TC1474 @Beelzebub thank you so much for contributing to the discussion!

I’d like to kindly remind everyone of our Forum guidelines: please keep all conversations positive, pleasant, and constructive. Let’s ensure this space remains respectful and welcoming for all members, even when opinions differ.

If you are curious, you can find our full Community Rules here: https://forum.rac.co.uk/threads/18775-RAC-Forum-Rules

Thanks for helping us keep this a supportive place for everyone. ☺

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by Bazza1234

@NMNeil
I don’t know why you think it is funny if I was to have recorded the situation on my phone and wouldn’t get it back for a few months 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦‍♂️
this just makes me think you are or have been an officer of the law and abused your position in some manner or other yourself.

To the contrary, we are required by law to retain all evidence until the case is fully adjudicated, including the 30 days he would have to lodge an appeal, and the arrestees phone is evidence if it has a recording of the incident.
If we stop and arrest a drunk driver who has an open bottle of alcohol in the car we kept the bottle until after the case, then they can get it back, same logic for cellphones.
Me "Your honour, we found an open bottle of alcohol in the car"
Defense attorney "Can we see it to make sure the bottle contained alcohol?"
Me "Sorry, we gave it back to your client"
Case dismissed, and rightly so, for lack of evidence.

[olduser]

Hi NMNiel, I think, in the UK the prosecution has to disclose to the defence what evidence they hold.
In your example, a bottle of booze, this disclosure is likely to be a photograph or a written description, now I agree that a written description of a mobile phones contents is a very tall order but an electronic copy of it's contents is relatively easy, and fulfils the need to disclose evidence to the defendant.

NB. I am not sure if this is done in the UK with regard to mobile phones but if justice is to be seen to be done, then I feel it should be.

[TC1474]

@olduser
Here in the UK there is a specific procedure for post crash drink drive allegations which is worked out scientifically based on how much alcohol consumed post crash is alleged and what they blow on the intoximeter.

It has been a while since I last had a post crash drink driver allegation, but it is pretty fool proof and watertight, but 99% of the time the defendant usually contests it, and loses.

With regards to mobile phones, we do not seize them here in the UK (except for drugs cases and similar).

In driving cases, the Police simply go to the service provider and obtain a print out of the calls they made complete with times calls made, how long the call lasted and to what number the call was made.

This practice is usually to establish whether or not the phone was being used at the time of a crash or other incident, especially if it is a hand held phone, but even though handsfree/bluetooth is still legal to use, if they were talking on the phone, even hands free, then that can be evidence to support a section 3 careless driving or even the more serious offence of dangerous driving.

[olduser]

Thanks for the info TC1474, as you have described it is clear that justice is being done, and therefore the majority try to cooperate with the police.