[ajayon]

Hey all,
Just thought I’d share a bit of my journey in case it helps anyone going through the same.
I failed my first two driving tests – once for hesitation at a roundabout, and the second time for not properly checking my blind spot during a lane change. Both times were frustrating because I felt I was ready, but nerves definitely got the better of me.
What made the difference the third time wasn’t just more lessons, but changing how I approached the test mentally. I started driving more outside of lessons with a friend just to build real-world confidence, and I also made a habit of talking through my mirror checks out loud during practice drives – weird at first, but it helped keep me focused.
Passed with just one minor the third time, and honestly the relief was massive.
If anyone else is struggling with test anxiety or just wants to vent, I totally get it. Happy to share anything that worked for me.

[olduser]

Belated congratulations ajayon.

The, 'mirror, signal, manoeuvre mantra always has struck me as wrong because it infers that once signalled you have the right to manoeuvre and (from observation) this is the start of many near misses or crashes.

Mirror, signal, mirror, manoeuvre, fits better and is I think intrinsically safe.

To illustrate my meaning I will break it down step by step.

First mirror including blind spots - The turning I wish to take is coming up, does it look safe to do so, what traffic do I have to take into consideration?

Signal - Asking surrounding traffic to accommodate my request, touch brakes. (enough to flash brake lights) start to ease off gas.

Second mirror and blind spots - Check to see if surrounding traffic is aware, and is adjusting to accommodate my request, without their cooperation I cannot deviate (is car behind looking to overtake, did it slow with me, is driver looking at me, is anything going to be trapped?)

Manoeuvre - Only if second mirror confirms the surrounding traffic shows it has seen and acknowledge my request (signal). If they have not, best (safe) option is to drive on.

I find, in general motoring conversations, the concept of asking for permission/accommodation to deviate from the normal is a big problem, most drivers understand signalling as giving them the right to manoeuvre.

Anyone any thoughts on this?

[Beelzebub]

First, the mantra in the Highway Code is actually Mirrors (plural), Signal, Manoeuvre. E.g. if turning left you check both the central and left mirrors.

Second, I'm not comfortable with the concept of a request, except in some circumstances. A manoeuvre which needs other drivers to change speed or direction should be the exception rather than the rule. For example pulling out into, or crossing, a seemingly never-ending stream of traffic.

[TC1474]

The system of MSM & PSL has been outdated and subject to much criticism for a long time for a whole number of reasons.

That said, I will keep quiet on the basis that if I go down the advanced mantra of IPSGA, I will flummox 99% of people here. 😉

[Rolebama]

@TC1474 I don't think I understand your last post. Are you saying that MSM is outdated? If this is true, I honestly don't get it. What has replaced it? I can only say that it has been my mantra for the past 50+yrs.
I would also add that I don't just use my mirrors before signalling, but also before the actual manouevre. I self-taught that the first time I was overtaken when turning right.
BTW, what is PSL?

[tim753milner]

Originally Posted by ajayon

Hey all,
Just thought I’d share a bit of my journey in case it helps anyone going through the same.
I failed my first two driving tests – once for hesitation at a roundabout, and the second time for not properly checking my blind spot during a lane change. Both times were frustrating because I felt I was ready, but nerves definitely got the better of me.
What made the difference the third time wasn’t just more lessons, but changing how I approached the test mentally. I started driving more outside of lessons with a friend just to build real-world confidence, and I also made a habit of talking through my mirror checks out loud during practice drives – weird at first, but it helped keep me focused.
Passed with just one minor the third time, and honestly the relief was massive.
If anyone else is struggling with test anxiety or just wants to vent, I totally get it. Happy to share anything that worked for me.

Hello,

I will keep quiet on the basis that if I go down the advanced mantra of IPSGA, I will flummox 99% of people here.

Best regard,
tim

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

First, the mantra in the Highway Code is actually Mirrors (plural), Signal, Manoeuvre. E.g. if turning left you check both the central and left mirrors.

Second, I'm not comfortable with the concept of a request, except in some circumstances. A manoeuvre which needs other drivers to change speed or direction should be the exception rather than the rule. For example pulling out into, or crossing, a seemingly never-ending stream of traffic.

I find I rarely make a turn in a built up area at 30 MPH, forcing following traffic to slow or, if there is sufficient width, to overtake.
The Highway Code suggest we should make an effort not to interfere with other road users.
Put these together, in real life, my manoeuvre is going to disrupt other road users, it is in my interest to be sure they have noticed my signal and are preparing to accommodate me, if they have not, there is going to be, at best a near miss at worst a crash.

Mirror/s, signal, manoeuvre, assumes other vehicles will have noted the signal and be taking action accordingly, yet we know the quickest way to a crash is to assume you know what others are doing.
Adding a mirror/s after the signal to confirm traffic around is adjusting to my signal removes the need to assume.

Without the cooperation of those behind and around I cannot safely manoeuvre, to me, this all part of creating that bubble of safety (as TC4714 aptly describes it).

The asking for permission, from other road users is, an expression I use to counter the selfish attitude that appears to go with driving, and fits the idea that we must cooperate if we are to drive safely together on the same road.
In practice, I cannot manoeuvre safely without knowing those around me have made the adjustments required or in other words, they have given me permission.

As I see it, to manoeuvre without permission means swapping the safety bubble for a bubble of chance, and as we know I can flip a coin and get heads several times but eventually it will land on tails.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

@TC1474 I don't think I understand your last post. Are you saying that MSM is outdated? If this is true, I honestly don't get it. What has replaced it? I can only say that it has been my mantra for the past 50+yrs.
I would also add that I don't just use my mirrors before signalling, but also before the actual manouevre. I self-taught that the first time I was overtaken when turning right.
BTW, what is PSL?

I understand PSL to mean Position, Speed, and Location, which should be second nature.

I first added mirror after signalling for the same reason as you, I had a near miss when turning right and a following driver decided to overtake, we both stopped to steady our nerves, in the conversation he said he had committed to the overtake because I was slowing, and he had not noticed I was signalling.

This was the start of using the, 'what can I do to prevent that happening again' self question?
In this case, the answer was, make a final check before manoeuvring.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by TC1474

The system of MSM & PSL has been outdated and subject to much criticism for a long time for a whole number of reasons.

That said, I will keep quiet on the basis that if I go down the advanced mantra of IPSGA, I will flummox 99% of people here. 😉

TC1474 sorry I think I scrambled your number in a post above, but with IPSGA (Just in case Identify, Predict, Signal, Go, Act) I have always thought the dangerous part is Predict, certainly with newer drivers.

Yes we can predict, with experience, a vehicle is limited by the laws of physics in that sense it is predictable but put a driver in it, and now I can only say what the driver should do, it becomes very chancy to predict what the driver will do.
Agreed if the driver/s follow the Highway Code prediction is possible.

Sounds like playing with words so I will try an example.
A driver ahead slows, moves to the left, signals left, so we can assume/predict they are turning left but I would be uncomfortable to do anything that depends on that vehicle turning left.
My experience tells me to pass with sufficient room to allow for them to decide to continue straight on.

[TC1474]

@olduser

IPSGA =
Information,
Position
Speed,
Gear,
Acceleration

This is the key element of roadcraft around which everything is built.

But the word that proceeds IPSGA is "Consider"

So you consider the information that is being given to you upon which you may need to act as well as considering the information you may need to pass to other road users.

After the information phase, you consider whether you are in the correct position for the hazard you are about to negotiate. You may not need to physically so anything but it becomes part of the thinking.

You then consider the speed which is appropriate for the hazard (A hazard is anything which contains an element of actual or potential danger). D you need to alter your speed, do you need to maintain a constant speed or maybe you need a bit of engine braking? But the right choice of speed is dependent on your information phase along with your position on the road.

You then consider the appropriate choice of gear, for example when going into a bend, rule of thumb down one as it will give you greater balance as well as better flexibility to accelerate or decelerate if required. Again, the gear you are in may be quite suitable for the hazard, but you consider it.

And then finally you consider the correct degree of acceleration that may be required to leave the hazard safely, if you need to accelerate.

To the untrained it seems like a lot of work over a long period of time to go through but in reality it happens in a blink of any eye and you only apply the elements relative to the hazard that is being dealt with and it is overlapping all the time.

This is much easier than the old definition which used to state that "The system of car control is a system or drill each feature of which is considered in sequence by the driver on the approach to any hazard" It then went into some detail about breaking down the system, but the principle still works.

With the current system drivers are taught that each function is a must do and so it becomes autonomous and develops into a lazy way of driving rather than thinking about each hazard on its merits MSM & PSL by the way = Mirror ,signal, manoeuvre and then once clear of the hazard Position, signal (as in cancel) and Look (and everyone will have been taught that).

Using IPSGA means that you drive on what you can see rather than what you know (which is a common mistake with 90% of drivers using MSM, and it helps maintain concentration levels for longer as well.