[Drivingforfun]

I've been reading about how manufacturers have to keep their emissions below a certain "fleet average" level, which is around what a small petrol city car would produce. In practise this means that for every big car or performance car they make, they need to sell a number of very clean cars to being this average down

Apparently it's why most supercar companies are owned by companies that also make economical cars, as on their own they'd fail spectacularly

From what I understand the punishment is just a fine rather than criminal proceedings or anything more draconian

I can't find anywhere as to what amount the fine is though

I'm just wondering, out of curiosity, why manufacturers - especially for performance cars - don't just design cars with performance in mind, and then build the cost of the fine into the RRP? If it added hundreds or even thousands of dollars I imagine a supercar customer would not object, so I'm assuming it would be prohibitively expensive, as in more like tripling the cost of the vehicles?

[Rolebama]

As far as I am aware this was an EU ruling, so am not sure whether it affects us any more?
Aren't we out of the EU now? (😅)

[olduser]

Unless there has been a recent changes car manufacturers worked to and are still working to Euro 1 to 6 depending on which year the vehicle is/was built.
I don't know of any concessions for super cars that are intended for use on roads.

As our largest customer for cars is Europe, like many other products, they have to be produced to European standards.
This sort of knocks the bottom out of the argument that said, if we left Europe we could please or selves.

[NMNeil]

Originally Posted by olduser

Unless there has been a recent changes car manufacturers worked to and are still working to Euro 1 to 6 depending on which year the vehicle is/was built.
I don't know of any concessions for super cars that are intended for use on roads.

As our largest customer for cars is Europe, like many other products, they have to be produced to European standards.
This sort of knocks the bottom out of the argument that said, if we left Europe we could please or selves.

As the EU is banning the sale of combustion engine cars in 2035 I don't believe that the manufacturers are doing anything to reduce emissions, as they will be a thing of the past by then and any research would be money wasted. Add to this with the mandatory ISA speed limiters, sports cars are also heading for extinction as there's not much point in making a 200 mph car when it's top speed is limited to the same as a Prius.

[olduser]

This all presupposes a super car has to be polluting but this is not the case.
Agreed, there is a few % extra in engine output by running slightly rich at the expense of much reduced economy which in general equates to reduced efficiency.

Running rich will produce more soot (particulates), and increase unburned hydrocarbons, CO will increase, with a lessor increase in CO2.
Yet the small increase in power could be obtained by a slight increase in boost pressure, this may increase NOX but the target is set quite high for petrol powered vehicles.

Of the reasons I can see for buying a super car, apart from, 'mine is bigger than yours', and 'hairs on your chest stuff', would be, 'look at me I can afford the very best', meaning the very best in all respects.

Sports cars were not really about speed, in their day, they were designed to go around corners better than the, 'normal' road car.
To achieve this, they were lighter, (leaving the roof off was one way of doing this), and had better suspension optimised to for cornering speed.
Higher cornering speed (in the UK) gave shorter journey times.
Inevitably, the run of the mill cars, improved, and it was found leaving the roof off, made the chassis flex, needing more design effort to correct, and more weight.
The weight could be compensated for by bigger engines (more weight), so now brakes became a big problem with all the extra weight to stop/slow.
But the target was still, a vehicle that would go round corners quickly and safely, related to that time.
Further development (much derived from racing cars) brought in, independent suspension, various chassis configurations, then monocoque construction, rack and pinion steering, all quickly adopted for normal road cars, leaving sports cars with very little advantage.
Sports cars could still have suspensions optimised for cornering, in contrast with road cars a compromise between road holding, and comfort but even there production saloons are closing in on the sports car.