[Drivingforfun]

In Japan it's relatively common for sports car manufacturers to offer a very "basic" model, aimed at people who will modify it. They come with the bare minimum to be legal, with the anticipation that much of it will be removed and changed; crucially they tend to be about 20% cheaper

The cheapest new car in the UK (which is actually a car and not limited to 29mph) is I believe around £12,000 but to me still looks quite smart, and has a lot of nice, but not essential, kit. Not things like safety tech which is probably an implicit requirement now but things like cosmetic exterior trims and interior kit

I wonder how much would something like a Toyota Aygo or a Kia Picanto cost if it was just legal, didn't have an infotainment system, sat nav, painted bumpers etc and perhaps just came in one colour? Would anyone buy it?

[Drivingforfun]

Just to add I know in China there are basic cars for around £5,000 but they are allowed to be sold without much of the safety kit we take for granted here

I was more just thinking in a world where lots of people want to lease a brand new car as a tool to get to work, and you can't really get one for less than £200 a month anymore... if you could get the guarantees and reliability of a new car but for used car prices would there be a market??

[Beelzebub]

People in the industry used to say "Small cars = small profits".

There might be a market, but not much enthusiasm.

[Mark07]

I'd love to say there would be a market, I think it'd be ideal for new/young drivers.

However, I wonder if that demographic may also attach a stigma to owning the cheapest thing on the market - similar to other accessories such as clothes/phones etc.

[Mark07]

Originally Posted by Mark07

I'd love to say there would be a market, I think it'd be ideal for new/young drivers.

However, I wonder if that demographic may also attach a stigma to owning the cheapest thing on the market - similar to other accessories such as clothes/phones etc.

Having said that... I do see more and more of the £12-15K cars on the road, so perhaps I'm wrong. And there designs are getting better and better.

[Rolebama]

I used to work at a custom workshop. We would essentially fit nudge bars, replacement dashboards, spoilers, side skirts, seats, custom interiors, leather seats, sun roofs, complete entertainment centres, upgraded brakes and/or suspension, wheels and tyres, wheel arch extensions and any particular custom work desired by the customer including trick paint jobs. The majority of body adaptations were made in house.
One of the most common cars we modded was the original Mini. I had one when I worked there, and when I decided to sell it, it auctioned itself for just under four times what I had originally asked for it.
We also did engine and transmission work/upgrades occasionally.

[olduser]

Hi Drivingforfun,

I think the original Mini was just what you described but in spite of a shortage of fuel at that time (Suez crisis?).
Initially it didn't sell, until it became 'fashionable' that is, a few well known people bought them, then the rest, as they say, is history.

But as Beelzebub pointed out above, it left British Leyland with a problem, small car = small profit, if I remember correctly, the best profit they ever achieved was about £45 per car, and most of the time it was less.
£45 isn't much to play with when you think of possible warranty claims!

Also mentioned by Mark07 above, is the image problem.

People don't usually buy a car for transport, image is probably more important.

[Rolebama]

I think a cheap and cheerful won't sell today is for two reasons. The first is that I think part of the success of the Mini was that it was so easy to modify. People just don't seem to do that anymore. The second is that generally cheap cars are more a slung together collection of parts, making them unreliable. Again. nobody seems to do their own repairs anymore.
As to olduser's comment about status, I agree 100%. Certainly where I live, those who don't buy new, definitely go for higher up the model range if buying used.
When I first moved here in the 70s most had Marinas, Avengers, Mk 2 Escorts etc. Until my next door neighbour bought an Austin Princess. Then 'Keeping Up With The Jones' Syndrome' really took off.

[TC1474]

The other consideration is that insurance companies love any excuse to pump up premiums and modifications and added bling is usually the primary red flag to raise the cost.

So........ How much more in premiums would it add against the basic cost of the car and then the adding of all the extra's? Would it be that attractive?

Then of course there would be the cost of having the extras fitted. You can bet your bottom dollar it would be insisted that the bling would have to be fitted by an approved dealer/installer so that would rule out your back street friendly local garage doing it on the cheap, so that probably means a factory hourly rate.

Probably just as easy to buy standard and develop or modify gradually over time.

I know when I was a youngster many of my mates had fancy sports cars, but I tended to go for fully loaded up market 4 door saloons such as (3) Granada GL's or Ghia's, Renault 30 (that was a mistake mind) which all offered superb spec from the factory, a decent engine (3.0 and 2.8 V6) and was supremely comfortable, but surprisingly was cheaper to insure than smaller sports cars and far more practical.

[Rolebama]

Insurance is a good point. My first Mini was in 1969. Insurance was £60 because 'too many people of your age group are writing them off, or seriously injuring themselves in them'. It was a standard 850cc and would never achieve motorway speed limit.
I was paying £78 for my modded Transit from 1985 until 1990. When I started with the AA in 1987, I got a staff quote. First question was as to who modded it. When I said I had done it myself, I was quoted just under £800. I declined their offer and paid the £78 for another three years.
A friend of mine used to buy the same car as me whenever I changed cars. In conversation one day, I discovered he was paying more than twice as much as me because he didn't shop around.

[olduser]

Of course the original Mini would not comply with construction regulations these days there were no crumple zones front or back, doors would not be resist side impact, no air bags etc.

I am not sure about the £5000 cars Drivingforfun mentions, if they are for the world market they would have to comply with construction regulations.

The Japanese tried very cheap basic cars, with very well made engines, but most country's put import duty on them to protect their own car makers.
The Japanese car manafacturers came back with cars loaded with what the western world called extras but in fact were not expensive, radio cassette player, multi speakers, etc.

You could say, import tariffs helped the Japanese as it forced them to make goods at lower cost yet better quality than the west were producing to cancel out the import duty.
OK labour was cheap initially but they had the whit to develop into robotics as their markets grew.
In contrast to the UK robots were used to make more, and better, rather than reducing numbers employed. (number man hours per car fell but the number of cars increased)
They also took know how and funding to other similar nations that could offer cheap labour that would do as they were told.
Companies like Sony, found that bought in transistors were not consistent so they made their own.


As to people modifying cars these days, all the, 'easy' modifications have been done , well shaped inlet manifolds, and ports, big valves or multi valves, higher compression ratio, no hot spots (sharp edges) in the combustion chamber, the engine computer controlling (ECU) mixture as good as the best carburettors if not better.

On some engines it may be possible increase turbo boost but this could lead to pinking (knocking) or the ECU retarding the ignition or you run a lower compression ratio which sort of defeats the object of extra boost.

There is one other tweakable thing, the fuel mapping, changing the mapping to max fuel air ratio throughout the range will give more power in the lower to mid rev range but at the cost of high fuel consumption and probably the catalytic converter may have a very short life due to overheating, I am not sure but I think the engine would fail it's MOT on pollution grounds.

[olduser]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

Insurance is a good point. My first Mini was in 1969. Insurance was £60 because 'too many people of your age group are writing them off, or seriously injuring themselves in them'. It was a standard 850cc and would never achieve motorway speed limit.
I was paying £78 for my modded Transit from 1985 until 1990. When I started with the AA in 1987, I got a staff quote. First question was as to who modded it. When I said I had done it myself, I was quoted just under £800. I declined their offer and paid the £78 for another three years.
A friend of mine used to buy the same car as me whenever I changed cars. In conversation one day, I discovered he was paying more than twice as much as me because he didn't shop around.

I think insurance was not as aggressive in those days, when I told them about my modifications (by letter, letters were affordable then) they wrote back with some questions.

Had I increase engine capacity - No
Had I increased the number of carburettors - No only a single carb.
Had I altered the body - No
Had I altered the chassis or wheels or brakes - No.
They then said, the insurance would same as an 850 Mini, and would I please stop wasting their time or words to that effect!
Being ever so polite 'cause I was well brung up I didn't argue.😉

I had one claim while I had Minis, caused by an out of control E type coming the other way wiping me off the (wet) road, my insurance was comprehensive, and in those days they sent an engineer to asses the damage, the car was fixed, and someone payed but not me.

[NMNeil]

Over it's long production run the VW Beetle sold over 21 million units.
Cheap, economical to run, dirt cheap spares, and it could be fixed with a hammer and screwdriver.
So yes, cars like this would sell.