[2024]

Hi,

looking for some advice!

I was turning right from a main road into a side road, I’d slowed down well in time for the junction, checked mirrors, positioned to turn, indicating etc a motorcycle came out of nowhere and hit the side of my car.

I did not see him in my mirrors or hear the motorbike it all happened so fast. As mentioned I had slowed to maybe 5mph barely moving .

i did not see the motorcyclist so myself I am unaware of where he came from but witnesses at the scene told me he was coming down the wrong side of the road doing a ‘wheelie’ at high speed.

my car was wrote off in the collision, myself and my son have minor injuries but overall fine. The motorcyclist however has lengthy injuries as you would expect.

in a state of panic I pulled my car over to the side of the road so I could get my son out of the vehicle - I realise now I should’ve left it where it was but the other party are now saying this means I’ve fled the scene?

I’m also reading through these forums that motorcyclists are allowed to filter through traffic and drive on the wrong side of the road? Does this put me at fault?

I would also like to mention the motorcyclist was uninsured, no license and was not wearing a helmet on a bike im told is not safe for ‘road use’ and is supposed to be for off-roading. He also attempted to leave the scene but was too badly injured, he called someone to try and remove the motorcycle from the scene too but the police arrived as this happened to stop it.

witnesses have said this wasn’t my fault and stopped to give statements but the family of motorcyclist are now trying to pin this on me. Am I to blame?

[2024]

Originally Posted by TC1474

It has always been the way and I have lost count of the number of cases I have investigated where the injured party was on the road illegally and has brought a claim. Those are the rules under civil procedure legislation.

However, Yes you could/can also make a claim against them if they are at fault. If they are in or on a motor vehicle, the claim goes through the MiB (Motor Insurance Bureau ) and this is funded in part from our policies where a proportion goes into the national pot to cover such things, or you can sue them as an individual and the claim can go against them personally or against their house contents insurance (assuming they have any) and in some case, family members have been sued on behalf of the claimant.

As a by the by, the MIB have no qualms about having someone declared bankrupt either...

Thank you for your help! Have spoken to police again yesterday who have said I won’t have to go to court or anything as this will be a legal matter between them and him. I just process my claim as normal and move on.

[TC1474]

These types of crashes are my bread and butter crash investigations and happen far more regularly than people realise.

Firstly, motorcycles are allowed to filter providing certain basic rules are complied with. One of those basic rules riders are taught is to never filter in close proximity to a junction on the right, especially when there is traffic ahead of you.

That said, you also have a statutory duty of care to ensure it is safe before you commence the turn and because you have an indicator flashing does not give the turning vehicle any automatic right of passage.

Did the Police attend? Do they propose to take any further action (that you are ware of ) against any of the drivers/riders involved?

Now in your case, any witness evidence of the riders behaviour prior to the collision will certainly help you as far as the civil claim is concerned and this evidence will work in your favour.

Unlike road traffic law where the prosecution has to prove a case beyond all reasonable doubt, in civil cases it is only required to show fault on the balance of probability of 51% or better, so the burden of proof is much lower, but this is where we start discussing contributory negligence, mitigation and a whole host of other issues.

Chances are primary liability will be down to the motorcyclist but be prepared to have to accept a small proportion of contributory negligence for the reasons I have explained, but.... If given it was an injury RTC, the Police will/should have been involved and a better measure can be determined when your legal representative has obtained a copy of the crash report documents from the Police.

If you are claiming for injury, remember you are claiming from the riders insurance not from the rider personally so you are not suing him so you are not making things worse for him, the only thing that will be decided is whether your case goes fastrack or multi track which is dependant on the seriousness of your injuries and the potential value of the case, but that is a whole seperate discussion and conversation.

[Mark07]

It wouldn't surprise me if the motorcyclists family are being told a different story.

If it were me, I wouldn't be keen to describe how I was (reportedly) doing wheelies along the wrong side of the road, on a non-road worthy vehicle without insurance and whilst failing to wear a (legally required) helmet.
@2024 I'm glad to hear that you and your son are ok.

[2024]

@TC1474 thank you! He has no insurance or license so the claim for myself will go against my own insurance and MIB. Not sure where he stands if he can take me to civil court case given that he shouldn’t have been on the road

[2024]

@Mark07 I know things just seem to become a little bit messy when others get involved it becomes a game of Chinese whispers

[TC1474]

Originally Posted by 2024

@TC1474 thank you! He has no insurance or license so the claim for myself will go against my own insurance and MIB. Not sure where he stands if he can take me to civil court case given that he shouldn’t have been on the road

Your claim with the MIB will be dealt with in the same way as if it was the rider himself you were claiming against. It takes a little longer because there are certain protocols that have to be observed and the MIB are immediately given 3 months to carry out their own investigation, so don't expect anything to happen that quickly.

The claim will not go against your insurance, the role of the MIB is to take on the responsibility of the uninsured driver or rider so in effect the MIB becomes the defendant in this case.

The only real difference is that there is a £300 excess on any damage claim but this does not apply to any injury part of the claim.

As daft as it sounds, even if he had been disqualified and he had a crash and it was determined as being your fault, despite not being allowed on the road in the first place, he could still make a claim against you (I am being hypothetical) as the courts have determined that although a driver should not be on the road for whatever reason, it is reasonable to assume that but for the careless or negligent behaviour of another road user, the chances are that the individual would have completed their journey (albeit illegally) without sustaining injury.

It stinks I know but that has been the rule of civil law since time in memorial.

But back to your case, your insurers and the MIB should handle the case as if it were a normal claim, make sure you keep a record of all your out of pocket expensed and costs as they can be claimed back

(Read my piece on what to do after a crash 😉)

[Drivingforfun]

Originally Posted by TC1474

As daft as it sounds, even if he had been disqualified and he had a crash and it was determined as being your fault, despite not being allowed on the road in the first place, he could still make a claim against you (I am being hypothetical) as the courts have determined that although a driver should not be on the road for whatever reason, it is reasonable to assume that but for the careless or negligent behaviour of another road user, the chances are that the individual would have completed their journey (albeit illegally) without sustaining injury.

This is interesting to read

I already knew there was something that doesn't exempt you from treating illegal road users as road users and you can still be at fault

It dismisses a popular defence attempt that "if they weren't breaking the law by being present on the road, I wouldn't have hit them in the first place"

I didn't know they could still make a claim though!!! That does seem a bit twisted, given that I couldn't make a claim against them if they were at fault

[TC1474]

Originally Posted by Drivingforfun

I didn't know they could still make a claim though!!! That does seem a bit twisted, given that I couldn't make a claim against them if they were at fault

It has always been the way and I have lost count of the number of cases I have investigated where the injured party was on the road illegally and has brought a claim. Those are the rules under civil procedure legislation.

However, Yes you could/can also make a claim against them if they are at fault. If they are in or on a motor vehicle, the claim goes through the MiB (Motor Insurance Bureau ) and this is funded in part from our policies where a proportion goes into the national pot to cover such things, or you can sue them as an individual and the claim can go against them personally or against their house contents insurance (assuming they have any) and in some case, family members have been sued on behalf of the claimant.

As a by the by, the MIB have no qualms about having someone declared bankrupt either...