[Drivingforfun]

A relative is just on their 4th van and mentioned that it has a rearview mirror in the cabin, as did others

Apart from to make sure the bulkhead is OK or as a vanity mirror…we were trying to figure out why they do this, especially in a business where saving materials and shaving grams off of weight is a thing

Anyone know??

[Rolebama]

Most vans come off the production line in the same format, then things are changed relevant to specific models. So the odds are that the van came off the production line with windows in the back, which were possibly changed for windowless, or a solid bulkhead was fitted. It's not necessarily cost-efficient to remove the mirror and possibly have to do some amount of cosmetic cleanup.

[Santa]

I have wondered the same thing myself. HGV and large vans don't have them.

Of course, many smaller vans have windows in the rear doors, so there is some use for an internal mirror.

I think that it's similar thinking to the way many lower-spec cars have all the wiring etc needed for high-spec options, but they are not fitted or need implementing by re-programming the computer. In the end, the cost of not fitting things to some specific models may be greater than fitting them to all.

[Drivingforfun]

Thanks, what you both say makes sense actually

It crossed my mind in the past with my car whether they could "delete" things that I don't need, in exchange for a refund (like the high-end sound system when I don't play music in the car and listen to the radio maybe once a month), but it occurred to me that specifying every car to the customer would probably cost more rather than resulting in any sort of refund

Same principal as that I guess?

[Rolebama]

Back in the late 60s/early70s, you could have a car built to your specs. A friend/neighbour bought a Ford Anglia 105E. Choice of colour of car, colour of interior, fabric and pattern of upholstery, colour and fabric of mats, type of gearchange, (4 on the floor or 3 or 4 on the column), engine size, with or without wing mirrors and a few other bits and pieces. All he had to do was pay his deposit and wait six months for the car to be built!
FWIW: Some years ago, we had a chap called Snowball on the Forum. He wanted a VW with a proper spare wheel in a proper 'cage'. I discovered that at that time it was a legal requirement in Saudi Arabia to supply a proper spare. After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, he got exactly what he wanted.

[Santa]

I have been lucky enough to tour a few car and truck production lines. Assembling the correct parts to make a specific model is a sophisticated operation. Most of those parts are supplied from elsewhere, sometimes a fair distance. For example, the MINI fascias (dashboards) put into cars at the Cowley factory were sent by truck down the M42 from Redditch, and those fascias used parts sourced from all over Europe.

I had expected that the production lines would make cars in batches - a run of red basic models, followed by blue whatever - But that's not how it works. They come along in apparently random colours and trims and the assembly workers can check a card attached to the bodywork that tells them what they need to know. In addition, all the parts except common ones like bolts and screws, are supplied in a predetermined sequence. Suppliers know which cars are going to be assembled and build and dispatch the appropriate part in the right order. Failure to deliver results in heavy penalties.

It is still possible to order a car to a choice from a variety of options and a visit to the Ford website confirms this. However, most cars on the line have been ordered and specified by dealers according to their knowledge of what will sell on the forecourt.

[Drivingforfun]

I'm aware you still can configure a car yeah but only with set options. My point was if you don't want something that comes as standard, it wouldn't actually save any money to omit it, because you're probably one of only a few people that don't want it so it'd cost a bit in logistics to even have it as an option

I wonder whether more "funky" combinations of options are more a thing now? Last time I read, only 11% of brand new cars were paid for outright - I wonder whether people are less worried about choosing the "correct" options for resale value these days, seeing as very few people actually own their cars?

I certainly had fun speccing my Motability car, knowing that resale value wasn't a concern!

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

Most vans come off the production line in the same format, then things are changed relevant to specific models. So the odds are that the van came off the production line with windows in the back, which were possibly changed for windowless, or a solid bulkhead was fitted. It's not necessarily cost-efficient to remove the mirror and possibly have to do some amount of cosmetic cleanup.

Exactly. Vans are built either as panel vans (with rear windows and without bulkhead as standard) or as chassis-cab units, on which you can mount any sort of body.

[Rolebama]

Like Santa, above, I too have visited a few production lines, over a span of 40+yrs. Some have put me off ever buying one of their products. Women using main looms as skipping ropes to stretch them and people using blocks of wood and hammers to 'adjust' the bodywork to enable doors and tailgates to close properly. (Does anyone remember the hatchback that stuck out like a sore thumb because of the angle of the tailgate.)

[TC1474]

The rules regarding mirrors are actually quite complicated so I will endeavour to keep it simple

Dual purpose vehicles - before 1 June 1978

An external offside mirror is required on all vehicles.

External - One external (nearside) or one internal (At least one mirror fitted externally on the nearside unless a mirror which gives the driver an adequate view to the rear is fitted internally)

Internal - 1 external (nearside) or 1 internal (at least one mirror fitted externally on the nearside unless a mirror which gives the driver an adequate view to the rear is fitted internally)

So it is left to the manufacturers to determine what mirrors they fit provided it is in compliance with the regulations.

Cars and dual purpose vehicles - after 1 June 1978

External - External offside required.

Internal - One external (nearside) or one internal (at least one mirror fitted externally on the nearside unless a mirror which gives the driver an adequate view to the rear is fitted internally) Again it is left to the manufacturers discretion as to how they comply with the regulations.

Cars and dual purpose vehicles - after 26 January 2010

This is where the change has really occurred. All vans must have and external offside and nearside mirror. However, an internal rear view mirror also became obligatory unless the internal mirror cannot provide an adequate view to the rear. This is considered subjective, so 99% of manufacturers have continued to supply vehicles with internal rear view mirrors.

With HGV's, it all comes down to weight, size and manufacturing date of the vehicle as to what mirrors they have fitted, and to try and simplify it in non legal speak would take for ever.

Everything is laid out in 33 of The Road vehicle construction and use regulations 1986