[jamauk]

I am having to resit my test after a 2 year disqualification due to an unidentified medical condition that caused a serious accident. It is thought that the judge made an example of me because it is such an unusual and unknown case, my doctor, solicitor, friends and family cannot understand why the case went this way. This however is for another topic when I feel I have the confidence to go into more detail, and I don’t want to make excuses.

After 2 years off the road I received my provisional license and shortly after passed my theory test. I started driving lessons after this due to the availability of instructors.

My driving instructor often turns up at least 20 minutes late to a lesson, and then will spend at least 1 hour going through diagrams about the topic we will be doing. This involves me being questioned about acronyms used, some that I haven’t been told and then what they stand for, yelling at me that she told me this last week and that I should have read it in my driving essentials book. Refusing to then tell me and help with my answer.

I originally learned to drive in 2001, things have changed in that time, there are also perhaps some bad habits of mine that I hoped we would identify and resolve, and after taking a five year break my memory has also faded. She frequently tells me about other disqualified drivers that she teaches, and explaining how she has novice drivers who are picking things up quicker and better than me. In my opinion how another pupil is doing should be irrelevant, whilst no names are mentioned it makes me worry about what she says about me.

I had a serious accident which is why I was disqualified, every lesson she shouts about other pupils and their friends, how they have had accidents and that they or their friends are lucky to still be alive, some ending up upside down in a hedge, and that if I don’t listen to her the same will happen to me again.

I often get the wheel snatched out of my hands which worries me sometimes because I am not positioned directly in the middle of the road, when I try to correct this I am yelled at for moving too abruptly, I understand that I don’t know everything, but it would be simpler to just tell me rather than intervening. Yesterday she asked me to pull over at the side of the road, before we came to a stop she for no reason slammed the brakes on, never explaining why.

This then proceeded on to telling me in an argumentative manner that I am holding the steering wheel too tightly, there are a few reasons for this, firstly is the anxiety that she is causing by grabbing the wheel and the associated yelling. I was asked yesterday why I was doing that and I explained that one of the reasons is that my car that I drove before disqualification had heavier steering, this was a wrong answer because after 14 hours (7 lessons) I should be used to her car, the seating position is uncomfortable, but if I put it to how I find it comfortable it is wrong, because of this movement is also limited, making it difficult to check blind spots and look past the A-pillar. With regards to the steering, yesterday she said that if I drive on ice or snow the car will slide all over the road, should you not adapt to the road? She constantly points out how she is an advanced driver and she likes to teach her pupils to that standard.

In yesterday’s lesson she asked if I had booked my theory test, I explained that I had already passed that, without going into detail that I had told her before even starting lessons with her. She then asked if I had booked my driving test, I haven’t yet, and lessons at my test centre can be up to 6 months waiting time. This was wrong and she yelled that I should have booked it already, after these lessons I have no confidence to do any driving after the way she has treated me. Next week is my last lesson with her and I have pretty much decided that I will not go, even if it means that I loose the money I paid in advance.

I was also told that I should have insured my car and go out driving with my dad, he can’t do it because he has heart issues and is going between the house and hospital every other day, she said that my mum should do it then, my mum doesn’t want to just yet if she is taking my dad to and from hospital, I am in work half the time and mum doesn’t want to commit to anything right now.

If I go too slow it’s wrong, even though previously I was told that it is a limit and not a target, yesterday we went past a school, at 3pm, so it was busy with lots of students, I was going too fast then, even though I was doing 20 in a 30 area. This then goes onto gearing, I should change to second before 10mph, the engine doesn’t like it and I can feel it struggling, but if I go at 15mph I am “revving the hell out of the engine”.

A lot to read here, so apologies! I will be doing an intensive course as soon as I can, but my biggest question in all this is am I being too sensitive or is she a bad teacher?

[Beelzebub]

@jamaukYou're clearly not happy with your instructor, so find another!

[Rolebama]

Agree 100% with Beelzebub. Find another instructor asap.

[jamauk]

I already have found and booked a different instructor, it's a frustrating place to be in. I actually went for an intensive set of lessons, it is expensive and they won't start for another ~2 months, they do however book the driving test for me.

I found her on a Facebook group and she is highly rated in the area, that is what concerned me. I've watched quite a few YouTube videos about driving instructors and a lot do say about the grabbing of the wheel and shouting can cause problems.

It also seemed strange that whenever we go past a T-Junction, if there are cars (wrongly) parked opposite I am reminded to beep the horn to let people coming out of the junction know that I am there.

Another quite strange part of the lesson yesterday, I was asked if I had an interest in sports, play or played sports in school. Ultimately I didn't really care much for sport in school, she thought it was BS, shouting at me that I must have done PE. Of course I did PE, actively participating in it was another thing, I didn't really care much for it, I had to play football or rugby because it was part of the curriculum. The only sport I had an interest in really was golf, that was of course the wrong answer, then it was explained to me that in football you don't look at where the player you are about to tackle is looking, you look at their feet because that is the direction they are going in, and so what I must do when driving is after looking at the front of the car to see where the driver is looking I must work down, see if they are indicating, but not take it as a given as they might have forgotten it, continue looking down to where the wheels are pointing. It just seems as though everything is being over complicated.

She has warned me that because it is an extended test it will last around twice the time of a normal test and the examiner will test me on every aspect and not just the basics, they will see that I had a disqualification on my licence and will be tough on me. It's all this that worries me and was ultimately the deciding factor to change instructors.

I overthink things, that's probably one of my problems, but it worried me that my intensive lessons are through National Intensive, now it was on Friday morning that I received notification of a test date, later that day she was asking if I had booked, where I wanted to book for. It made me question if she would either have access to this sort of thing through the MyDriveTime app that she set me up on. It doesn't show anything about tests being booked on there, it just seemed too much of a coincidence.

Knowing my luck I would end up with her as an examiner 😂 or instructor, both of which I would with good reason walk away from.

Anyway, thank you for reading through my long winded rant on here, I just had to say something, I have woken up thinking about it and this just seemed the easiest way to do it. I can't exactly go to my parents about it, I don't live with them full time, I am only staying with them to offer support whilst my dad is in hospital, they are finding every day life stressful enough without me adding to it.

[Rolebama]

After a while, you will find yourself looking at those things you mention, and taking them in with a glance. Unfortunately, I think roadcraft comes with experience, and is not so easily taught. Scanning parked cars, checking shop windows for reflections, checking road conditions, looking for shadows etc I mentioned them all to my daughters but only as 'advisories, now they tell me of things they've picked up.

[jamauk]

I have booked intensive lessons with National Intensive who have booked a test for me, I actually called them yesterday for an update with who the instructor would be as there is no name of instructor listed.

The person I spoke with explained that they get instructors to put themselves forward, and they would choose the instructor they feel would be best for me. I asked them to put a note on my file that I did not want the instructor I was with previously because without going into any detail, a number of issues I had with her teaching abilities. I did apologize for having to do this, and she did explain that they quite often have people calling to ensure that they don't get a particular independent instructor that they had to move away from.

Hopefully this time it will be an instructor that doesn't argue, slam brakes and clutch down, randomly grabbing the steering wheel, being 20 minutes late for every lesson and spend over 1 hour of a 2 hour lesson talking and questioning me about various acronyms used in driving.

I also hope that the new instructor lets me position the seat to how I feel comfortable and not a generic seating arrangement. I have to say, there is a lot of love for the Mini out there, but I found the seats uncomfortable, this however was possibly due to how she made me adjust the seat leaving me hunched up too close to the steering wheel and the seat high up.

[Drivingforfun]

I know there are 3 sides to every story (your side, her side, and in the middle: the truth) but she does sound like an awful instructor

I think I would be wary of the fact that someone is highly rated on social media sites, to the point that not only would I treat it as irrelevant but it would actually be a turn-off for me as it's so easily manipulated and corruptible

Putting that aside and focusing on some constructive points because having a (justified) bash at her doesn't do any good, except perhaps you feel a bit better...

"Speed limits are not targets" I was told this is wrong. If there is no reason not to drive at the speed limit, you should aim to do so because driving unnecessarily slowly is a sign of anxiety and/or doubt of your own ability (hesitancy counts as a "fault" during a driving test)

Revving - most advanced drivers I know make full use of the engine's rev range - safety and control becomes above economy. 15mph in 1st gear is what, 2500-3000RPM? Even if it's a diesel you probably had another 2000 revs to use if you wanted

2 things I'd say she was correct on though

Sitting too high up - I drive a Mini and am over 6 ft tall and I have the seat quite high. I find it interesting seeing so many oncoming cars with smaller drivers whose head is barely visible above the dashboard, they surely can't see properly to manoeuvre and position their car?

Horn use - using the horn as a warning and not a response after the incident has happened is correct. It's refreshing to see someone try to encourage this ... that said personally I still try to minimise horn use as rightly or wrongly it's seen by most as an aggressive signal, and seems to get you into conflict even if used correctly

[jamauk]

Originally Posted by Drivingforfun

2 things I'd say she was correct on though

Sitting too high up - I drive a Mini and am over 6 ft tall and I have the seat quite high. I find it interesting seeing so many oncoming cars with smaller drivers whose head is barely visible above the dashboard, they surely can't see properly to manoeuvre and position their car?

Horn use - using the horn as a warning and not a response after the incident has happened is correct. It's refreshing to see someone try to encourage this ... that said personally I still try to minimise horn use as rightly or wrongly it's seen by most as an aggressive signal, and seems to get you into conflict even if used correctly

I probably didn't word the horn use comment correctly, I understand using it as a warning, essentially to let other motorists know that you are there. What I found frustrating was that she was leaning across in front of me to press the horn instead of saying "this is what you could/should do" sometimes even nudging my left hand out of the way to do it, then telling me that I should have both hands on the steering wheel.

I'm just under 6 ft, the problem with the seat position was that my legs were stretched out, the seat too high and upright, it made my arms feel hunched up, it could have done with the seat being just slightly lower, slightly further forwards and not as upright. The seat position actually made it feel as though all of my weight was on the base of my spine, I pointed this out several times and was told that it is what the DVSA guide to driving says it should be and is something the examiner would test me on.

Seeing DVSA on the above paragraph reminds me of another thing I was abruptly corrected on, when I said DVLA I was shouted at because I should have said DVSA, it just seemed a very pedantic interruption that could have waited until I had finished talking.

Perhaps some of my points were said just to make myself feel a bit better, I think a better way to word it would be that she was a passenger that couldn't give up control of the drivers seat. When I read that back it doesn't seem to get my point across. Essentially she couldn't explain something without taking complete control back. Even when I parked perfectly at the side of the road, wheels around 5 cm from the kerb she said "I don't know what the wheels are like on your Focus, but I'd rather not have chunks taken out of my wheels".

With regards to her on social media, what it doesn't show is how many pupils she has/had, there are 7 5/5 reviews, but these date back to June 2018, I wish I had checked this before, I presume anything less than 5/5 would be deleted, anyone could put a negative comment about her, what proof is there either way if there is only two people in the car.

[jamauk]

Well an update and a bump on this thread.

My instructor through National Intensive cancelled last minute due to covid and last minute they couldn't get an instructor, it's a 22 hour course (including test) and I didn't like the idea of having 9/10 hour lessons, I don't think that would be of any benefit whatsoever. The earliest they can book a test for is November, although I'm on a cancellation list, I don't know if that's likely or not. The concern I have now is that I took my theory test in March, this is only valid for one year, if the same happens again and the instructor cancels, where do I stand with that, will National Intensive at very least refund the cost of the theory test?

I actually thought last week about my previous, awful instructor after seeing her coming out of the polling station, where she completely blanked me! During my 5 lessons with her she was more interested in saying street names and would be frustrated if I didn't know where it was when they are new housing estates, across the other side of town that have been built whilst I haven't been driving. Constantly pointing out electric vehicles and saying that they are nothing more than milk floats and shouldn't be on the road, I don't see that as helpful at all.

One of the questions I also have is about junctions and roundabouts, she kept saying that I didn't have to use the indicators if there was nobody there.

Four points with that however:

• Firstly I feel more comfortably using indicators so can they just be used?

• Secondly, would it not be a good idea to use them just because there might be someone, either a car or pedestrian who I might not have seen?

• Thirdly, could she just worried that I would wear the bulbs out! She had the obsession with me keeping the revs low as possible so that I wouldn't rev the hell out of the engine, was she on some sort of eco drive, no indicators, revs as low as possible!! Another point to back that up was with her 1 hour stationary lessons, drawing on a bit of laminated cardboard road layouts, it was warm weather, sometimes hot, but all she would do was open the window and not use the air conditioning, it was like a greenhouse.

• Fourthly, another concerning point is that she said that because it was an extended test it would probably involve motorway driving, I didn't think that would be a thing, especially because I am a learner driver?

[jamauk]

I've just read on here that a theory test is valid for two years, that takes a lot of weight off my mind.

[Santa]

will National Intensive at very least refund the cost of the theory test?

You would have to ask them that.

she was more interested in saying street names and would be frustrated if I didn't know where it was . Constantly pointing out electric vehicles and saying that they are nothing more than milk floats and shouldn't be on the road, I don't see that as helpful at all.

I agree. A good instructor will avoid irrelevant comments as a distraction. You are learning to "drive".

she kept saying that I didn't have to use the indicators if there was nobody there.

In general, she is correct. Indicators are there to let other road users know what you are going to do, so it follows that there is no need to use them when there is no one else there. I am pretty sure that you will not fail your test for using them though. Unnecessary use would be, for example, when you are in a left turn-only lane - no need to indicate then.


because it was an extended test it would probably involve motorway driving,

Why is it an "extended test"? A normal test will take you onto a fast dual-carriageway but not a motorway.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by Santa

she kept saying that I didn't have to use the indicators if there was nobody there.

In general, she is correct. Indicators are there to let other road users know what you are going to do, so it follows that there is no need to use them when there is no one else there. I am pretty sure that you will not fail your test for using them though. Unnecessary use would be, for example, when you are in a left turn-only lane - no need to indicate then.

.

On test, the examiner doesn't expect a new driver to have the observation skills or experience necessary always to judge whether anyone would benefit from a signal at junctions. But unnecessary signals in other situations, e.g. when pulling away from the kerb, or passing parked cars, may be marked as faults.

In a left-only lane, a signal may still be necessary. Other drivers should know what you're doing, but pedestrians may not.

[TC1474]

Originally Posted by jamauk

• Firstly I feel more comfortably using indicators so can they just be used?

• Secondly, would it not be a good idea to use them just because there might be someone, either a car or pedestrian who I might not have seen?

For the driving test (says I putting on my ex examiners hat) you will be required to signal by the numbers (MSM), but once you are through your test, change your thin king a little as the current system employed by the DVLA is not fit for purpose.

You are being taught to pass a test, you are not being taught the skills for life and this is where much of the problem lies as the standard is set at the lowest common denominator, namely the thickest drivers on the planet.

When you give a signal, the purpose is to give a signal of intent.
I intend to turn left
I intend to move to the left.
I intend to move to the left and stop
I intend to turn right
I intend to move to the right.

It is not a signal of achievement, so to this end you need to ask a few questions as part of your driving plans to help you decide whether or not a signal may be required.

Can I give the correct signal of intent?
Is there anyone who will benefit from the signal I am considering?
Can I give the signal in good time?

You notice the word "Consider" That is key. You consider the appropriate signal not give a signal because you are on automatic pilot.

If you get into the habit of asking those simple questions, once you are through your test you will be able to eliminate around 40% of the signals you are currently required to give, which often includes going past stationary vehicles, exiting roundabouts, turning out of driveways or entering a 1 way street (to give an example)

As a crash investigator, I have dealt with a lot of serious crashes (including fatalities) cause by a driver giving the wrong signal at the wrong time with the wrong meaning or badly timed, and at advanced driving level, those that signal simply because they were taught to do it as an automaton we consider as a lazy driver because you are not watching circumstances around you are anticipating the ever changing scene.

When I do advanced driving courses, I spend a whole lesson of the proper use of signals and it goes into a lot more depth than I can do here, but suffice to say and as I said, do as you are taught for your test and then re-assess your standards before you develop any major bad habits.

[jamauk]

I'm just starting lessons with a different instructor, however it has given me a lot of uncertainty and thoughts, possibly after the instructor that I had in the summer, whilst I gave up with her and tried to ignore any advice she gave me I do still have some of those bits of "advice" running through my mind.

I get on well with my new instructor, she is very calm and keen to listen to my questions, which have helped a lot. However she has given me a few uncertainties. Last week I asked her to demonstrate coming off a roundabout because there are a few things she tells me off about and it feels a little unfair.

Firstly, my use of mirrors, I look in them regularly, particularly my rear view mirror, I check this usually every 10 or so seconds through normal driving, however one of the criticisms I get is on approach to a junction, if I have to brake I should check my mirrors, it just seems a strange criticism because if I had already checked the mirrors 2 seconds before starting to brake or indicate I would rather keep my eyes looking ahead.

If I'm changing lanes I indicate just after checking the mirrors, if I'm not changing lanes, just slowing because I'm approaching traffic lights or a roundabout I check the mirror as I apply the brakes, it surely is the responsibility of the person behind to keep a safe, 2+ second braking distance.

Secondly, coming off a roundabout into a NSL 60/70mph zone she used proper hard acceleration through all the gears, this also doesn't feel right to me, it doesn't seem like smooth driving and it concerns me that it is something that I would be marked down on in a test. I always thought you had to make progress, so building up to the speed limit smoothly, going through the gears, keeping the revs to around 2-3 rpm. From what I have read, a black box insurance device would pick up on this and it would make the cost of insurance considerably higher, I have even heard of people having insurance cancelled or receiving warning letters from their insurance company because this type of driving has been detected.

Thirdly, the excessive use of mirrors makes it difficult to see what is happening ahead, coming off a roundabout I hit a pothole, there are lots of potholes around this area, it caused tire damage and the pictures she showed me felt like emotional blackmail, telling me how much it had cost due to loss of earnings and the cost of a new tire. I don't know if she wanted me to offer to pay or not, my thought on the matter though is that it is a business risk that should be factored in, and also blaming me for it, this could have been caused either by her on the drive to my house, or by another student.

A final point, and it relates to my point above, if it was a case of wanting to profiteer from my failings, she told me that because she is a registered driving instructor, for every test failure she has to have a DVSA examiner check her driving, this costs her £300 and she cannot teach students until she has passed this test. I may have misunderstood how this point was put across, but it just seemed unfair to be putting this kind of pressure on me, either as emotional blackmail or wanting me to offer to pay for a loss in earnings, especially after also reminding me that we are half way through the lessons and we still have to fit in a mock test and vehicle maneuvers.

I've pretty much decided that if I don't pass this test I'm going to book a test and a couple of lessons in the easiest area in the UK and take it from there. Preferably somewhere with better roads than around here where the idea of repairing a pothole is a bit more than throwing a bit of tarmac at a hole in the ground.

[jamauk]

Another question I have thought of, it relates to my second point about. The acceleration matter, if you go over the speed limit by 1-2 mph would that be an instant fail? It seems a little unfair, especially if you immediately react and lift off the accelerator, there are a lot if hills around this area and it is not always possible to stay exactly on the speed limit. Apparently speeding is understandably dangerous, that's something I fully understand and accept, but that the examiner will take the keys and make you walk back to the test center and get someone else to collect the keys to the car and recover it later that day.

Also is engine braking no longer a thing? She has told me that when I'm in, for example fifth gear and wanting to slow for a roundabout to (obviously) use the brakes so that the driver behind will see brake lights, keeping it in fifth gear and not changing down to second gear until the engine is struggling, even then not lifting the clutch until I'm ready to pull away. I might be totally wrong on this, but it goes against everything I was taught 20 years ago when I first learnt to drive. I'm sure if this is correct she must get through a lot of brake discs and pads every year. An aggressive downshift obviously wouldn't be something you would do, but when being encouraged to go, go, go hard accelerate to get up to the NSL I start to wonder what to do.

I'm very much inclined to agree with @TC1474. The current system employed by the DVLA is not fit for purpose, this goes along with a point I have that it would be handy to use a parents car, however these are both automatics (DSG). It would be handy if the automatic/manual licence seems totally outdated, whilst not impossible, it is getting harder to find manual cars, particularly with the increase in PHEV, BEV and various derivatives of on the road.

[TC1474]

Originally Posted by jamauk

Another question I have thought of, it relates to my second point about. The acceleration matter, if you go over the speed limit by 1-2 mph would that be an instant fail? It seems a little unfair, especially if you immediately react and lift off the accelerator, there are a lot if hills around this area and it is not always possible to stay exactly on the speed limit. Apparently speeding is understandably dangerous, that's something I fully understand and accept, but that the examiner will take the keys and make you walk back to the test center and get someone else to collect the keys to the car and recover it later that day.

Also is engine braking no longer a thing? She has told me that when I'm in, for example fifth gear and wanting to slow for a roundabout to (obviously) use the brakes so that the driver behind will see brake lights, keeping it in fifth gear and not changing down to second gear until the engine is struggling, even then not lifting the clutch until I'm ready to pull away. I might be totally wrong on this, but it goes against everything I was taught 20 years ago when I first learnt to drive. I'm sure if this is correct she must get through a lot of brake discs and pads every year. An aggressive downshift obviously wouldn't be something you would do, but when being encouraged to go, go, go hard accelerate to get up to the NSL I start to wonder what to do.

I'm very much inclined to agree with @TC1474. The current system employed by the DVLA is not fit for purpose, this goes along with a point I have that it would be handy to use a parents car, however these are both automatics (DSG). It would be handy if the automatic/manual licence seems totally outdated, whilst not impossible, it is getting harder to find manual cars, particularly with the increase in PHEV, BEV and various derivatives of on the road.

On test, whether you exceed the limit by 1 or 2 mph is subjective and down to individual examiners and varies from area to area, test centre to test centre bearing in mind that most police forces now have a zero tolerance for excess speed, so exceed the speed limit by 10% (i,e 33 in a 30), then you are open to a fixed penalty or at best a speed awareness course.

Just do your best to comply with the limits and you will be fine.

And regards engine braking? A very important skill in the drivers armoury to be able to reduce the speed of the vehicle by simply taking your foot off the gas and is something I still teach and is still encouraged in most professional courses.

What your instructor is referring to when it comes to gears is what we call black changing.

The use of the gears to slow down became a test failure back in the 70's (despite what people might tell you) on the basis that brakes are designed to stop you, the gearbox isn't, so we have a saying, "Gears to go, brakes to slow" in the basis that it is a lot cheaper to replace a set of brake pads then it is a gearbox, and it reduces the possibility of selecting an inappropriate gear, but also bear in mind that every time you take your hand off the steering wheel to change gear, there goes 50% of your control, especially when reducing speed.

So what is block changing? It is the ability to select a lower gear by bypassing intermediate gears.

S give the roundabout example you mentioned. You approach the roundabout in top gear, you bring your speed down on the brakes and use a bit of clutch to keep it smooth if needs be, and then if the entrance to the roundabout is clear and you do not need to stop, then simply go from (for example) 6th gear to 2nd, or 5th to 3rd depending on the speed and conditions.

If you need to stop, the still approach in top gear, stop and then select 1st gear. What you are doing is eliminating multiple gear changes and maintaining better control of the vehicle.

So if you were taught to use the gears to slow you down 20 years ago then you were taught badly and incorrectly, but even if you get through the test using brakes to slow rather than gears, I guarantee that in a couple of years after you pass your test, you will fall into the habit of slowing down on the gear box.

As a by the by, the incorrect use of direction signals and using the gears to slow down are the two biggest causes of failure or downgrades on advanced test.

I appreciate you are not taking the advanced test, but the principle still applies it is just to highlight what a poor standard the current L test requirement is.

[jamauk]

Thank you for your advice @TC1474, that makes a lot of sense to read an it breaks it down into a lot more understandable categories.

That does make a lot of sense with regards to the speed limits, I would never break the speed limit on a 30 limit, the difficulty is usually on a 60-70 limit, where it is 1-2 mph over, probably for a second and I lift off the accelerator straight away. It's usually caused by the hard acceleration that my instructor is telling me to do, and the fact that there are a lot of hills in the area add to this - I'm not trying to give an excuse, but it does feel a little too critical of my instructor, especially when I correct this immediately and I'm sure my instructor must break the speed limit based on the way she puts her foot down. In the town around the test center I'm usually on, or for safety just below the speed limit at a speed I deem to be safe.

Vision and use of mirrors, I check them every 10 or so seconds, certainly when signalling I check the side mirrors before indicating or changing lanes, I was always taught to check the mirrors before indicating to change lanes because a vehicle to the side might think that you are going to change lanes, and drive across into them, something I see routinely as a passenger and cars try and force their way across. It's the excessive use of the rear view mirror that I'll check as I apply the brake to alert a driver behind my intent of slowing down, ultimately though if I'm having to use the brakes it would be because there is something that I have to slow down for, if it becomes a problem for the driver behind. If I'm having to brake hard in the instance of an emergency stop then I would rather focus on the emergency that I am having to stop for rather than worrying about the person behind who ultimately should be sat far enough back that it is safe for them to stop without hitting me.

I often do a lot of this through peripheral vision, a recent eye test demonstrates that I have perfect eyesight, perhaps I don't move my head enough to demonstrate my use of mirrors, it just doesn't feel as safe having to do this rather than peripheral vision to check mirrors, and it is largely agreed that in a test mirrors have to be checked by using obvious head movement.

It perhaps doesn't seem right the way I've worded any of this, and I'm in no way trying to come up with excuses.

[TC1474]

@jamauk

Forget about hard or harsh acceleration. That is not good driving. Accelerate smoothly and at a pace you feel comfortable at remembering not to cause other traffic to alter course or speed.

I think at the moment you are reading too much into things, over analysing. Listen to your instructor as all they are doing is teaching you to pass a test, and because each test centre is different, your instructor will know the quirks of that particular centre better than anyone else on this site for example.

Once you have passed your test and if you really want to improve, then forget 90% of what you learn for the test and enrol with your local advanced drivers group (RoSPA or IAM) and start to learn the skills for life which will stand you in good stead for the rest of your driving career.

But for now, trust in your L instructor, and do not be afraid to question anything you do not understand, if needs be get them to demonstrate and keep asking the questions until it clicks.

Remember you are being taught to pass a test, nothing more hence why you are being taught by numbers

[jamauk]

Originally Posted by Victoria00

It sounds like you have good habits, but maybe you're just not making your mirror checks obvious enough for the examiner. As for speed if it's only momentary and you correct it immediately, it shouldn’t be a big issue, but it's worth being mindful of those strong accelerations. And with mirrors safety comes first, of course, but during the test, it’s better to slightly exaggerate your checks so there's no doubt.

Thank you for the advice, I understand the point is to make it obvious, it just feels "less safe" to take my eyes off the road to do something I can do without moving my head. The side mirrors perhaps a little more obvious movement, but the constant checking of the rear view mirror before using the brakes, I would rather stop before getting to a give way line than going over it and risking a collision or driving into the car in front, whilst I would try and prevent an accident from the driver behind it us ultimately their responsibility to maintain a safe distance.

Similar to that is an emergency stop, I would rather be in a position to see the emergency, brake hard and then look in a mirror instead of the see emergency, take time to check the mirror(s) then brake.

It might sound like I'm being a bit harsh with this, but it just seems to be common sense. Perhaps she is just being extra harsh so that I remember things and get rid of the bad habits.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by jamauk

Thank you for the advice, I understand the point is to make it obvious, it just feels "less safe" to take my eyes off the road to do something I can do without moving my head. The side mirrors perhaps a little more obvious movement, but the constant checking of the rear view mirror before using the brakes, I would rather stop before getting to a give way line than going over it and risking a collision or driving into the car in front, whilst I would try and prevent an accident from the driver behind it us ultimately their responsibility to maintain a safe distance.

Similar to that is an emergency stop, I would rather be in a position to see the emergency, brake hard and then look in a mirror instead of the see emergency, take time to check the mirror(s) then brake.

It might sound like I'm being a bit harsh with this, but it just seems to be common sense. Perhaps she is just being extra harsh so that I remember things and get rid of the bad habits.

It's a myth that you have to move your head so that the examiner knows you're checking. He /she can see your eyes.

In any event, he isn't checking that your neck muscles work. He is looking not just for observation but for effective observation. He knows what's behind, and he needs to see that you know and make the appropriate decisions to show that you know.

As for an emergency stop, your instructor should have taught you that is the only time you do not check mirrors before braking.

[olduser]

The first thing to say is, driving is a complex mixtures of skills.
When performed well, it looks easy, and herein lies the trap, it looks easy.

Since reading this thread, and many others, I have been trying to workout a response that may help worried learner drivers, and of course those who wrote the threads to complain.

If you condense them all what comes out is a common picture, I know how to drive, and my instructor is trying to change my perfect technique.
When I tell my instructor this, they still want me to change, therefore my instructor is rubbish/bad tempered and so on.

I know, I must look where I am going but I am not certain what I am looking for.
I know, how to steer, if I am too far right then turn left a bit and visa versa, I go zig zagging along the road just fine.
I know, the rules about changing gear but I'm not sure why
I know, about brakes and braking, soft to slow hard to stop but sometimes which?
I know, about speeding up and slowing down, a bit like the brakes but sometimes it doesn't work right.
I know, there are mirrors to look at, I look at them every X secs., but not sure what I looking for.
I know, what road signs and signals mean, I read the Highway Code.
And to be frank I don't see the need to take lessons, other than to learn the sneaky tricks the examiners get up to so they can fail us.

But what I don't know, is how can I give all of these things the full concentration they require together?
Now this is what the instructor will show you.
Much of the I know list has to become subliminal, done without bothering your thought process.
To achieve that you must repeat them over and over until they become instinctive, and in most cases you learn to feel when an adjustment is needed.
I know, I have to look but look at what, and having looked now what, do I have to remember it all or can just note bits, how often, there are gauges to look at, and mirrors every X secs?

These questions are dealt with by experience, you need to develop a basic routine to scan everything, looking for the abnormal, then experience decides if that has to be corrected now or it can it wait?
Experience implies having seen/done it previously,
Until you have gained that experience, at first you have to rely on training, this is what your instructor is doing, training and guiding you.
Why, to take the load of your brain, it has a full time job interpreting what you can see, and planning what to do next?

On top of all this, you have to not impede other road users, so having successfully turned out of a road junction, there is not time to phone your mate, and let them know how clever you are, you need to smoothly get up to the new traffic stream speed quickly.
Anyone who has learned this (your instructor!), can tell if the driver of the vehicle they are passenger in has also learned, not so much by looking but more by feel, a driver who is mentally ahead of their vehicle drives smoothly, if they are not they are constantly reacting, every action is hurried.

To save you money, your instructor tries to combine many instruction streams together rather then dealing with them individually but each client will learn at different rates, and many clients will know better which will slow things down, each has to be accommodated.
And all this is done on live roads, so your instructor is having to see you are both safe at all times.

So before you start berating your instructor, stop and ask yourself, are you really listening, or are you so good you don't need to!