[ALCHEMY]

There does not seem to be a person on the planet who can answer this question...
Do you need a tacho for driving a 14 seat minibus in France?
Can I stress it is a 14 seat as this seems to be the problem in getting a definitive answer.
Many thanks

[Santa]

When I investigated taking a minibus to France with the Girl Guides I decided that it was far too complicated. I did this regularly and legally in the UK, but cross the Channel and a whole new set of rules come in to force:

Taking a minibus abroad and remaining within the law is far more complicated
than taking your car to France, for example. Do not plan a trip abroad until you
and your organisation have fully understood all of the strict requirements you
need to meet.

Minibus owners are most likely to travel within the European Union (EU). The EU
now includes 28 countries, although Norway and Switzerland are still not EU
members. In this fact sheet we give basic advice on taking a minibus to EU
countries and outline where to get further advice and information.

We assume that your passengers will be contributing to the cost of their trip.
Your minibus is therefore operating for ‘hire or reward’. The definition of 'hire or
reward' is described in more detail in Community Transport Fact Sheet 4: Section
19 Standard Permits for Minibus Operation.

In planning a trip abroad the two requirements that are most likely to cause
difficulties are:
 Driver licensing – drivers must have passed a D or D1 driving test. The
exemptions which allow you to drive a minibus in the UK on your car
licence, whether you passed your driving test before or after January
1997, do not allow you to drive a minibus in other EU countries. You must
have current D1 or D entitlement on your licence, gained by passing a
D1 or D driving test (D is a PCV licence for more than 16 passenger
seats). You cannot drive a minibus abroad if you only have an
ordinary ‘B’ car driving licence.

 Tachograph – for all other EU countries the minibus must be fitted with a
tachograph. Drivers must comply with EU drivers’ hours regulations and
the tachograph must be used throughout the trip, from the moment the trip
commences in the UK.

Another potential obstacle is that the minibus will need a speed limiter,
restricting its maximum speed to 100kph (62 mph). This is only an issue for older
minibuses, built before 2008 – all newer minibuses have factory-fitted speed
limiters as standard. Older buses may have them, especially those built from
2005 onwards.

In summary, before you start planning a trip abroad in any detail, make sure that:
 You have appropriately licensed drivers
 The minibus has a tachograph fitted
 And has a speed limiter.

http://documents.hants.gov.uk/transp...2011-07-21.pdf

In addition to the above, I believe that you would need a 'Drivers Certificate of Professional Competence' although it isn't clear.

More info here http://www.dfcminibuses.co.uk/pdf/BV...s%20081211.pdf

To be honest - it wasn't that hard to find.

[Snowball]

Considering the number of light commercial vehicles designed for carrying passengers, it would be helpful no know the minimum number of seats required in order to claim that the vehicle is a minibus. I have a VW caravelle - 7-seats including the driver, and there are various similar vehicles of different manufacture.
Depending on the source describing it -even insurers - the description can vary from van, to MPV to bus. The V5, for body type, calls it "Van/Side Windows" For Taxation class, it says "Diesel Car.
When I compare it to my previous VW Touran MPV, it is still basically an MPV, and only marginally larger.

[Santa]

I believe that a 'minibus' has more than 7 seats. MPV is not a legal description - there are cars, up to 7 seats, minibuses, up to 15 seats and buses with more than that.

There are exemptions for volunteers to drive minibuses in the UK without a 'D' licence provided that they are volunteers and the passengers are not paying for the privilege - not even as part of a total package. When we took the guides, they had to pay the costs of the camp and the transport was free. That there was enough surplus on the camp fees to cover the cost of the bus was our business...:)

[Santa]

After all my effort getting that information together and showing that there is "a person on the planet who can answer this question", I would have thought that I rated a reply.

[Snowball]

Santa, could you please explain in what context you say, "MPV is not a legal description"? I am assuming you are distinguishing it from a minibus with 8 or more seats?

[Santa]

There are cars and vans of various types which are defined as Private and Light Goods vehicles (PLG) If a vehicle can carry nine or more passengers it is a bus and the driver needs a 'D' licence to drive it unless the use is exempt. The length of a bus is also important as over 12 metres means a lower speed limit.

If you set out to devise a really complicated scheme, it would probably end up simpler than this. The fact remains that Multi Purpose Vehicles have no separate status.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ax-classes.pdf

[driving_teacher]

A UK school (hired or owned) 17 seater minibus (ie. 16 passenger seats) driven in the EU DOESN'T require a tachograph. They are an exception as they are a British vehicles driven in France (for non-commercial use). There is a lot of misinformation out there – but from the .gov.uk website:

• On this page: https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/passenger-carrying-vehicles - It does say that a 17 seater follows EU/AETR rules (which would normally include a tachograph)

• However, according to this page there is an exemption for a 17-seater used for non-commercial use (ie. Children (or their parents) just cover the cost of fuel and hire) : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-passenger-vehicles/1-eu-and-aetr-rules-on-drivers-hours - and this exemption is regardless of where they are driven in the EU.

So if a 17-seater minibus driven for non-commercial purposes is exempt from EU/AETR rules, (regardless of where it is driven in the EU) then the vehicle is back in the scope of GB domestic rules which don’t require a tachograph for a 17 seater (16 passenger) non-commercial minibus in the UK for France.

This is the case for state schools or independent schools that are registered charities.

[Ryleigh]

I was planning to go France in my vacation and i really don't know about this thanks for sharing.

[Gjm15]

Originally Posted by driving_teacher

A UK school (hired or owned) 17 seater minibus (ie. 16 passenger seats) driven in the EU DOESN'T require a tachograph. They are an exception as they are a British vehicles driven in France (for non-commercial use). There is a lot of misinformation out there – but from the .gov.uk website:

• On this page: https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/passenger-carrying-vehicles - It does say that a 17 seater follows EU/AETR rules (which would normally include a tachograph)

• However, according to this page there is an exemption for a 17-seater used for non-commercial use (ie. Children (or their parents) just cover the cost of fuel and hire) : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-passenger-vehicles/1-eu-and-aetr-rules-on-drivers-hours - and this exemption is regardless of where they are driven in the EU.

So if a 17-seater minibus driven for non-commercial purposes is exempt from EU/AETR rules, (regardless of where it is driven in the EU) then the vehicle is back in the scope of GB domestic rules which don’t require a tachograph for a 17 seater (16 passenger) non-commercial minibus in the UK for France.

This is the case for state schools or independent schools that are registered charities.

I'm so confused , I own a 13 seater minibus in the uk , I bought it 4 years ago and only use it for days out with my kids and grandchildren, I only have a B1 entitlement but because it's not for hire or reward I'm allowed to drive it . Now I'm planning a camping trip to France with my children and grandchildren, there will be a total of 10 kids and myself and my wife. Is my licence still valid to drive in France for a 2 week holiday , I will be funding the whole trip myself so nobody else is paying 1 penny. I'm reading that much online it's just confused me as some are saying my licence is recognised the same in France as here so I'm allowed as I'm only a visitor and I'm not charging any fees