Penalty for "incorrectly displaying L plate" on 125

  • AstonishedFork's Avatar
    Hi all,
    this is my first post here and I'm looking for some advice/opinions.
    I live in a small town and have been driving my 125 for a year without any problems.
    However, the other day I was pulled over by a cop (lights, sirens the lot) because my front L plate was not visible enough (see here: http://imgur.com/a/pc66s).

    Honest, genuine mistake on my part, I probably should have known better.
    Apparently, because I trimmed the rear one down a bit it is also illegal.

    So he slapped me with a ticket for 3 points on my license and "up to a £1000 fine" for "Driving otherwise in accordance with my license". He also read me my rights as he was "formally reporting me".
    I was both polite and terrified and just took it all laying down.
    I wanted to ask him some questions, but he basically shoved me out the car and said he had to leave after handing me the ticket and saying I'd receive a letter detailing charges.

    To be honest, I now feel quite hard done by. I had assumed (wrongly) that because I saw other 125 riders around town displaying their front L plate in the same way, that it was acceptable.
    I'd have thought any decent policeman/woman would have pulled me over and given me a warning/advised on the correct way to display L plates. I have also been told by my local friends that this certain policeman is an absolute turd (for want of a better word) who likes to target younger people.

    Am I correct or am I being self-righteous?
    What can I expect to happen next?
    Has anyone else experienced this?
    Is it worth appealing if the penalty notice comes through with 3 points and fine (I've read it's a £60 fine per L plate)?

    All advice appreciated, but please no lectures - I've already spent too much time crying over this!
  • 18 Replies

  • Best Answer

    Santa's Avatar
    Best Answer
    I agree that he was being a bit over zealous. That said, there is nothing you can do but wait for the notice to come through the post. This may be soon or it can take weeks, so fix the problem and get on with your life.

    You might also use social media to warn anyone else in the same position about what can happen.

    For information, the rules are here https://www.gov.uk/government/public.../l-plate-sizes
  • Motman's Avatar
    Well, technically he's in the right but I do sympathise with you - it probably wouldnt have hurt him to give you a stern lecture. 'L' plates are there to warn other drivers that you are inexperienced though so you should make them as visible as possible. You'll more than likely get three points but I doubt very much whether you will be fined twice - once for each plate. Im not sure whether you can appeal as you were breaking the law. If you read some similar posts on the 'web, some say you could also be charged with no insurance as your policy states that you must ride in line with current regulations. No insurance is a six pointer offence. Hopefully it won't come to that. If you live in a small village, your card will now be well and truly marked by the copper in question so be aware from now in. Many, many years ago I was fined £15 for having no 'L' plates on a car. Mind you, I had just wrapped it aroud a lamp post! Be careful from now on, three more points on a new licence and you get to ride a pushbike!
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    Hi. Welcome to the forum. To answer your questions:

    - You're being self-righteous. Ask yourself, what is the point of displaying an L-plate as you have done? To serve any purpose they need to be clearly visible to other road users, not facing the sky.

    - You will almost certainly receive a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty (£100 fine and 3 points). If you do not accept that, you will be summonsed to court where the potential costs are much higher.

    - Others no doubt have.

    - You can't appeal. You can either accept the offer or wait for a summons to go to court and plead not guilty. That would be inadvisable, since you appear to have no defence. Should you be found guilty, the fine would be higher, and you'd also face costs (guideline £620) and a victim surcharge (10% of fine, minimum £30). The points could also increase, although that is very unlikely.



    -
  • AstonishedFork's Avatar
    Thank you everyone for your replies, Santa you're totally right, I'll just have to see what comes through the post.

    I need to renew my insurance soon (12th) but of course the notice hasn't come through the post yet and I don't know what penalty I'll actually receive.... So I'm not sure how to disclose this on my new policy!
    Any advice?
  • Santa's Avatar
    Good question and I don't know the answer. I think I would take the view that you don't need to disclose it unless you are asked about pending charges. Of course, if you are charged and get points and/or a fine, you will have to tell them then, so no deception involved. There is always a chance that you will just get a letter telling you to fix the problem and take it to a police station.

    If you are concerned, you could get a quote without declaring it, and then phone and ask. On reflection, that's probably the best course.
  • smudger's Avatar
    Yea! years ago when I was in the Navy, I got done by a dock yard copper for having the L plate on the front of my motor bike wrapped round the front suspension rod........................ ...........It was clearly visible, and on that model of bike, there was nowhere else you could put it? (Unless you made a flat board and bolted that to the bike!)...........................So, I appealed it, and won my case, but that dockyard copper had it in for me after that?............................It was just as well our ship left for sea three weeks later, ........It was a long three weeks, believe me...........................I hope things don't go too bad for you, good luck.
  • TC1474's Avatar
    Offence of failing to display L plays is quite clear and quite specific.

    They must be 7 inches square (which is the size they are when purchased and new) and they must be clearly visible to the front and rear of the vehicle.

    If they are missing, reduced in size, chopped down or altered, then the offence is complete and it is £100 fine and 3 points for each L plate offence. So 2 L plate offences, 2 offences, £200 and 6 points, although Police will usually report for summons and the courts will impose a heavier fine and penalty.

    L plates are required for a reason. It may seem unfair to those who get caught, but there is no excuse. Even on a bike they can be displayed easily (I am now putting on my bike instructors hat as well as my retired traffic cops hat ) so there is no excuse.
  • Motman's Avatar
    Thank you everyone for your replies, Santa you're totally right, I'll just have to see what comes through the post.

    I need to renew my insurance soon (12th) but of course the notice hasn't come through the post yet and I don't know what penalty I'll actually receive.... So I'm not sure how to disclose this on my new policy!
    Any advice?

    You should let your insurance company know you have a prosecution pending. Failure to do that could invalidate your insurance policy.
  • TC1474's Avatar
    Unless they ask the specific question "Do you have any prosecutions pending?" They are usually only interested in actual convictions and most ask the specific question "Have you been convicted of any offence?"

    If the OP has been reported for summons, then the prosecution have 6 months from the date of the offence in which to lay information before the courts and then a prosection must occur within a reasonable period of time.

    If only one offence was committed in relation to just one L plate, ten I would have expected the Policeman to have dealt withthis matter by way of fixed penalty.

    So, I have to ask the OP, were you reported for more than one offence?

    If it was just the one L plate offence and you did not receive a FPN, then it seems like you may have struck lucky and he decided to give you a verbal warning and nothing more.
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    Offence of failing to display L plays is quite clear and quite specific.

    They must be 7 inches square (which is the size they are when purchased and new) and they must be clearly visible to the front and rear of the vehicle.

    If they are missing, reduced in size, chopped down or altered, then the offence is complete and it is £100 fine and 3 points for each L plate offence. So 2 L plate offences, 2 offences, £200 and 6 points, although Police will usually report for summons and the courts will impose a heavier fine and penalty.

    L plates are required for a reason. It may seem unfair to those who get caught, but there is no excuse. Even on a bike they can be displayed easily (I am now putting on my bike instructors hat as well as my retired traffic cops hat ) so there is no excuse.

    According to the CPS, "Police officers are permitted to issue up to three fixed penalty notices for one occurrence but only one of those three notices may be for an endorseable offence."

    So, only £100 and 3 points for the OP if he gets a COFP.

    If he's summonsed to court for two offences he faces two fines but still only 3 points.

    http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/r...nalty_notices/
  • TC1474's Avatar
    The courts still have discretion to increase the penalty and the points bearing in mind that they still impose a victim surcharge to the penalty.

    But the point I was making is that if there were 2 seperate offence, then the OP would have been reported for summons because of there being 2 endorsable offences.

    If....He has only committed one offence with one L plate, then it should ave been dealt with by one ficed penalty notice.
  • AstonishedFork's Avatar
    I think this is part of the problem, the issuing PC didn't explain things very well so now I'm very confused!
    He took my provisional driving license and took the details etc there and then and issued me with a copy of the Traffic Offence Report, he then said I would be contacted via post with the outcome and could be looking at 3 points and up to £1000 in fines.
    I would, therefore, assume that he is only reporting me for one offence...?
    I contacted the station to ensure that I didn't need to produce any documents (as this was also ambiguous) and was told that it was with the manager who hasn't actioned it yet and to contact them in a weeks time....
    Very confused!
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    The courts still have discretion to increase the penalty and the points bearing in mind that they still impose a victim surcharge to the penalty.

    But the point I was making is that if there were 2 seperate offence, then the OP would have been reported for summons because of there being 2 endorsable offences.

    If....He has only committed one offence with one L plate, then it should ave been dealt with by one ficed penalty notice.

    In many (most?) force areas officers no longer issue FPs at the roadside: they generate a Traffic Offence Report which is then actioned by a central office. So the OP may still get a COFP.

    BTW the actual offence would be "Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence", so surely only one offence, no matter in how many ways the licence conditions were breached?
  • TC1474's Avatar
    Mr Beelzebub, I assume you serve in the Police or the legal profession? You must do as you obviously deal with different Police forces to me then.

    Most forces still issue on the spot fixed penalties. It is only in cases where there are multiple offences it will be reported for summons.

    To the OP, it sounds like you have been issued with a fixed penalty and the Policeman has taken your licence to submit it to the central ticket office who in turn will send it to DVLA for the points to be added. You will need to then pay the fine to the central ticket office and then in die course you will have your licence sent back to you by Swansea.

    But to be on the safe side, I would recommend that you pop along to your local Police Station, take all the paperwork you have and ask the desk officer to explain everything to you. That way you are getting everything from the horses mouth and they can also probably speak to the officer who stopped you for clarification.

    Just make sure that you get the name and collar number of the officer you speak to.
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    Mr Beelzebub, I assume you serve in the Police or the legal profession? You must do as you obviously deal with different Police forces to me then.

    Most forces still issue on the spot fixed penalties. It is only in cases where there are multiple offences it will be reported for summons.

    But there is now a third option to the FP or summons - the driver improvement course, which forces are very keen on (because they raise revenue**) but officers are not empowered to offer. Hence the TOR, which takes the decision away from the officer on the spot.

    Nottingham police (for example) say "The TOR process is designed to allow a range of ways in which the offence(s) can be disposed of. It is a new process for Nottinghamshire Police, making it quicker and more efficient for everyone involved -particularly you. "

    and West Mids: "Officers may issue a traffic offence report or TOR instead of a fixed penalty ticket as they allow them to offer driver education courses."

    ** There's a story in today's Times that the government are concerned at this trend, and want a review. There were 1.4 million courses last year, and no evidence that they do any good - apart from generating £35 a time for the force concerned.
  • TC1474's Avatar
    You have not answered the question.

    What is your legal background? You are making statements of fact based on press reports?

    I am familiar with driver awareness courses. These courses are only offered in most areas after a crash or where there is an offence of excess speed under a certain limit, for example 35 in a 30. The majority of driver iprovement courses are such offenders or those who have would have been prosecuted for careless driving.

    But the decision in the main still lies with the Policeman on the ground, or in the case of accident cases where it has gone to the accident records department and based on the evidence. In extreme cases, the CPS will make the final decision.

    But I go back to your earlier comment You stated "In many (most?) force areas officers no longer issue FPs at the roadside:"

    Please tell me your background that substantiates your statement.

    Coincidentally, I have just had my former colleague drop by for a cup of tea, (traffic cop and my former crew mate) I showed him your comment.

    He spent the next 10 minutes quietly chuckling.

    So as I asked, please tell me your background that allows you to make such a statement of fact.

    To the OP, apologies for hijacking yor thread, but if someone is going to provide legal advice it should at least be accurate.
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    You have not answered the question.

    What is your legal background? You are making statements of fact based on press reports?

    First, I have no intention of compromising my anonymity on a public forum by discussing my background.

    So far as facts are concerned, the two quotes in my post are directly from the first two police websites I looked at. You can no doubt find similar statements on other police websites if you have the time and inclination. I have no reason to believe they are not factual.

    The press report I mentioned quoted a figure of 1.4 million courses per annum, and that the police forces retain £35 of each course fee: these are both matters of public record.

    It stated that there is no evidence that the courses reduce subsequent offending, which I believe to be a fact - certainly no evidence has ever been published AFAIK.

    It also stated that "the government’s Vehicle Technology and Aviation Bill, which was tabled last month, proposes a series of reforms to the system. It would prevent the training being offered for repeat offences in England and Wales, to stop drivers being sent on more than one within a lengthy period". This again is a matter of public record.
  • clarty123's Avatar
    I totally feel for you. Unfortunately our son was pulled over tonight and had his bike confiscated as his rear L had fallen off! I feel so sorry for him because he is on an apprentice wage and then went to work extra hours at the local pub to raise funds for his own car as he only passed his car test yesterday. I can’t believe he didn’t get a slap on the wrist? So now he has to pay £150 release fee and £10 per day until it is released! No wonder why the police’s popularity is so low within the community. What a complete jobsworth! I hope Karma comes looking for him.