Sold as seen now saying unroadworthy please help...

  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    Hi all,

    I hope someone can give me some guidance.

    I recently sold my car privately. First time ever sold a car.

    The buyer turned up with his friend on the day who he said was an experiences car buyer. He checked the car over, checked the oil/tyres/engine etc etc. Took it for a test drive. Told me it needed a new tyre and also he thought the shocks needed doing but that he was happy to proceed and didnt want any money off etc and that the engine sounded great and was exactly as described.

    He paid me the money, filled in the relevant parts of the v5, insured it, taxed it and took away the car and all the paperwork inc the mot and service history.

    I subsequently posted off the v5 with newkeeper details the same day and he drove it 150 miles home.

    Two days later i get atext saying he is returning the car as it has lots of faults which he wasnt aware of that now he hashad it checked by a mechanic he no longer wants it.

    His reasons are an oil leak and something about the pistons needing rebuilding. Also that all of the shocks need doing snd not just one ashe had iriginally thought. He is saying on that basis the car is unsafe and dangerous and unroadworthy therefore im committing a criminal offence and it is not fit for purpose.

    I really dont know what to do since a) i told him on the day i knew nothing about cars and that my description, which after test driving it he was happy with about the engine starting first time and sounding great was as far as i knew and b) i cant issue a refund since i hVe now purchases a new car with the funds from that one.

    He is scaring me by saying i have acted illegally and that he has taken legal advice and i need some advice on my own on what my rights and obligations are.

    Obviousely i would not have sold the car if it was unroadworthy since i had been driving it myself without any issues! He has even said he knows i didnt knowingly sell it with any issues but still that he is entitled to a full refund and is bringing it back as no longer has insurance! He has also said he is contacting dvla to cancel the change of keeper.

    Im losing sleep over this now and just dont know what to do please can someone help??

    S
  • 25 Replies

  • Dennis W's Avatar
    Did he pay cash?

    I wonder if he is trying some sort of scam?

    Refuse to accept return of the car. Also refuse to permit him to change the V5 registration. It may be worth reporting him to the police if he continues to threaten you. Tell him to consult a solicitor if he wishes. Have you posted off the V5 yet?
  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    Yes he paid cash and yes ive already sent the v5 off. Is he really able to tell dvla to not process the new keeper even though hes signed it!
  • Dennis W's Avatar
    He may just be bluffing when he says that?

    If you get any more contact from him that is threatening or bullying, then tell him he needs to contact a solicitor.
  • Motman's Avatar
    He bought it privately after having it checked over by his own mechanic. He has no rights in law whatsoever and he cannot cancel the V5. If he has issues, I'd tell him to take it up with his mechanic. You have committed no offence so don't let him tell you otherwise - the sale of goods etc, only applies to motor dealers.
  • smudger's Avatar
    Aye! I will go along with that one Motman, he has obviously changed his mind and is just trying it on?.................The car was sold "as seen" and be knows that................If he does contact you again, tell him that you are keeping notes of all correspondence he has with you, on advice of your solicitor, .........he probably won't bit her you again, good luck.
  • Dennis W's Avatar
    Yes he paid cash and yes ive already sent the v5 off. Is he really able to tell dvla to not process the new keeper even though hes signed it!
    I have never heard of them doing so previously.

    I wonder if the buyer has been caught by a speed camera, or caught with no insurance, and now wants to avoid the consequences?
  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    He is saying he has had a "vehicle health check" and the report said it was unroadworthy. He has mentioned pistons and the shocks (the shocks he already knew about as he told me about them when he test drove it but agreed to take it anyway and repair himself). If the report says it is unroadworthy what should I do, do i have to take it back even though i didn't know anything about it and how do i know he hasn't just got a friend to do the report because he knows it needs a few little bits doing to it and can't afford it (he has said it will cost around £400 just for the pistons and he can't afford to pay it on a previous message).

    Really just dont know what to do!

    What is it that could make the car unroadworthy? Would pistons do that? I dont even know what they are!

    S
  • Hometune's Avatar
    Guest
    Right, calm down for goodness sake. As a private seller you have done nothing wrong and he cannot now claim anything. End of.

    Do not listen to or answer any questions put on here by Dennis or you will go mad. He gives incorrect advice to most people so ignore him.

    Motman's advice is what you should read and accept. The buyer cannot do anything and he certainly cannot stop DVLA, that's absolute nonsense.
    Do not reply to the buyer and if he threatens you call the police who will likely have a word if necessary.
    Now, go and make a cup of tea, relax and put this behind you!
  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    Thankyou for all of the replies folks.

    Update is that he has now sent me a report from a supposed garage (looks like the kind of thing anyone could have put together although iv'e checked on the net and the garage is real). The report has various headings and then tick boxes saying "ok", "requires attention" and "unsafe". The "unsafe" tickboxes are for

    Tyres (he knew about the tyre replacement needing to be done and mentioned it before buying but said no problem)
    Wipers - no known problem to me think hes ticked it as it makes it "unroadworthy"
    Washers - again no known problem to me in the whole time i've driven it !
    Brakes - hes put "flexi pipe split". I have no idea what this is and only had the pads replaced a month before i finished driving it again, no know nproblems to me
    Suspension - hes put unsafe - corroded. I dont understand what this means and not sure how i could have known.
    Engine - oil leak- fire hazard as blowing blue smoke. This was an advisory on the MOT which was given to him before he purchsed.
    Body work - chassis split under boot - i dont believe this but am no expert.

    He is saying i have therefore committed a criminal offence under section 75 of the road traffic act and the sale of goods act.

    really dont know what to do next !! Please help.

    S
  • Santa's Avatar
    Read this: http://www.which.co.uk/cars/choosing...ponsibilities/

    You must describe the used car accurately so as not to mislead buyers. If they ask about the car, you should answer truthfully.

    You don’t have to volunteer information about faults, although we’d never suggest you sell a used car if you know it is dangerous to drive.

    The Sale of Goods Act 1979 gives protection when someone is buying from a dealer, but doesn’t cover private sales. So, provided that you’ve been honest in your dealings, a buyer has little legal comeback if the car develops any faults.

    Legally, a buyer has few options for redress against a private seller. If you described the car fairly and it was yours to sell, there is little he or she can do – even if it breaks down and requires expensive repairs. Unless the buyer can prove that the car was unroadworthy on the day of sale, you need not offer to help.

    However, if you described the car as having, say, a year’s MOT when it was actually about to expire, the buyer would be due compensation.
  • Beelzebub's Avatar
    AFAIK the Sale of Goods Act is irrelevant - it doesn't apply to private sellers.

    Selling an unroadworthy car is indeed a criminal offence, but I suspect the police wouldn't be interested. Even if they were it wouldn't help the buyer. Section 75(7) of the RTA explicitly says "Nothing in the preceding provisions of this section shall affect the validity of a contract or any rights arising under a contract."

    I think they're bluffing, but it would be worth seeking advice. Some solicitors offer a free half-hour's consultation.
  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    This is my issue though, his whole argument is that it was unroadworthy on the day of the sale but neither of us knew it (he has admitted that he knows i wasnt aware of any issues).

    Where does this leave me legally?
  • Santa's Avatar
    What more do you want? I have quoted the relevant law (and Beelzebub has repeated it). As far as the law is concerned, the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on. Just don't let him intimidate you.
  • Dennis W's Avatar
    I think the most likely reason why he says that he wants to return the car is that he has been caught for an offence, and he now wants to erase the evidence that he ever owned the car. He is bullying you with no valid reason to threaten you. Have no more communication with him.
  • Motman's Avatar
    This is my issue though, his whole argument is that it was unroadworthy on the day of the sale but neither of us knew it (he has admitted that he knows i wasnt aware of any issues).

    Where does this leave me legally?
    So neither he or you knew it plus, as you said in your original post "The buyer turned up with his friend on the day who he said was an experienced car buyer. He checked the car over, checked the oil/tyres/engine etc etc. Took it for a test drive. Told me it needed a new tyre and also he thought the shocks needed doing but that he was happy to proceed and didnt want any money off etc and that the engine sounded great and was exactly as described."

    Repeat. Exactly as described.

    Just tell him sold as seen means exactly that and that he should seek legal advice from a solicitor, CAB, Police etc. They'll soon put him right. Tell him firmly but politely that if he keeps on pestering you will report him to the Police for harassment.
  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    I understamd whats been said but am confused about the fact that the law seems to state the offence occurs if the car is unroadworthy on the day it was sold and this is what he is saying is the case..
  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    So neither he or you knew it plus, as you said in your original post "The buyer turned up with his friend on the day who he said was an experienced car buyer. He checked the car over, checked the oil/tyres/engine etc etc. Took it for a test drive. Told me it needed a new tyre and also he thought the shocks needed doing but that he was happy to proceed and didnt want any money off etc and that the engine sounded great and was exactly as described."

    Repeat. Exactly as described.

    Just tell him sold as seen means exactly that and that he should seek legal advice from a solicitor, CAB, Police etc. They'll soon put him right. Tell him firmly but politely that if he keeps on pestering you will report him to the Police for harassment.

    He has said he has checked with his local police and citizens advice bureau and a solicitor and they have all told him i have committed an offence because teh car was not roadworthy on teh day it was sold :(
  • Dennis W's Avatar
    He has said he has checked with his local police and citizens advice bureau and a solicitor and they have all told him i have committed an offence because teh car was not roadworthy on teh day it was sold :(

    He is telling lies. None of those people have told him that. Has he told you this by telephone? Keep a detailed record of everything he has told you, but avoid any more contact with him.

    Do not allow him to intimidate you. he is full of BS
  • Dennis W's Avatar
    I understamd whats been said but am confused about the fact that the law seems to state the offence occurs if the car is unroadworthy on the day it was sold and this is what he is saying is the case..

    Regarding the tyre, it probably was not an illegal depth of tread, but it was prudent to buy a new one, I guess.

    My guess remains that he has committed some sort of offence, and thinks by refusing to accept the vehicle that he can escape the consequences.

    He is full of bluff and bluster.
  • Shell7t8's Avatar
    Update - Court Action!

    Hi Folks,

    Well, in update to the original thread the guy didn't go away with this and ended up issuing a county court claim against me. I received the paperwork in December and sent back my defence. I have now had notification from the court asking if i want to go down the small claims track and have mediation. I dont really know what to do as surely mediation suggests i will accept some kind of liability and end up offering some kind of remedy which involves me paying towards the car or having it back neither of which i believe i should have to do!

    Has anyone had any experience in this. Since he originally sent the texts/letters he has sent me copies of various statemetns and failed MOT s.

    I still think the car was sold as seen and that all the information was on the MOT which was done last July for him to see. THere was nothing new uncovered and i clearly told him the car had been standing for a few months.

    What shall i do folks? If it goes to a full hearing and he wins i wont be able to afford to pay all the court costs etc AND take the car back :(
  • Motman's Avatar
    Well, I wouldn't accept mediation as you say, because that will end up with you probably paying something. On what grounds is he claiming - there are no rights for the buyer when buying from a private individual as long as the car really is your personal property and you have not misrepresented it in the sale (for example, stating that it has a new gearbox when it clearly doesn't). If in any doubt go to the Citizens Advice Bureau or check if your house insurance/ bank account etc offers free legal advice. I've never heard of a private individual claiming against another private individual over the sale of a car. He surely has weakened this case by bringing an 'expert' along to check it over.
  • Hometune's Avatar
    Guest
    I have been involved directly in 10 county court cases in small claims like your one. The first step after the summon is issued and you send back your defence is to avoid a court case as this takes up court time. In some cases mediation may be the answer. It is your choice whether to accept it but if it does go to court the judge may still decide that is the best route.
    Do not be overly concerned about costs. For you it is free and the other party will have to prove he has incurred costs should you lose. The courts do not award silly amounts because Joe Bloggs says he has spent 38 hours preparing his case and he wants £80 per hour. If an expert attends then reasonable costs would be awarded but this will not be £100s and £100s and he will have to present a breakdown of them.
    If you win then you can claim reasonable costs from the other party. Maybe a couple of hours lost plus travelling expenses so it will not be much. I have won all my cases and the costs I have been awarded were always a nominal amount of £10-£20 even though I spent hours on research and taking time off work.
  • smudger's Avatar
    Quote........."Now, go and make a cup of tea, relax and put this behind you!" ........................that's the best bit of advice I've read on this thread, Goodun
  • Csd2022's Avatar
    @Shell7t8 hi I am interested in what happened. How did this turn out in the end?